The Sand Creek Massacre
Report of the Secretary of War
Report of the Secretary of War
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PAGE 184
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF COLORADO,
Denver, April 7, 1865.
CAPTAIN: Colonel J. M. Chivington, late of the first regiment Colorado cavalry, having made application to Brigadier General Connor,
commanding district of the plains, to have the evidence of one L. Meyer taken, regarding the Sand creek affair, in the absence of the
military commission now investigating the matter at Fort Lyon, you will, in obedience to instructions received from General Connor,
take the affidavit of Meyer on the subject, in presence of Colonel Chivington, and forward the same, properly attested, to these
headquarters to-day.
Respectfully, your obedient servant,
T. MOONLIGHT,
Colonel Eleventh Kansas Cavalry, Commanding.
Captain JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Judge Advocate, Denver, Colorado Territory.
Pursuant to the foregoing authorities directing me, as judge advocate of the district of Colorado, district of the plains, to take the
deposition of one L. Meyer, with reference to his knowledge of facts connected with the Sand creek affair, in accordance with
directions by me received, and proper notification to the parties being given that the deposition of L. Meyer would be taken before
me, at my office, at 2½ o'clock p. m. of April 7, 1865, J. M. Chivington, late colonel first Colorado cavalry, duly appeared by counsel at
the hour and place above mentioned, and presented Mr. L. Meyer, who, being by me first duly sworn, testified and deposed as
follows, viz:
lst question, direct examination, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. State your name, age, occupation, and place of residence.
Answer. Lipman Meyer; age, thirty-four years; freighter; place of residence, Leavenworth.
2d question, by counsel. Where were you on or about the 1st day of December, 1864, and what were you then engaged in?
Answer. I was on the Arkansas, about thirty miles east of Fort Lyon. I was on my way with a train going to New Mexico.
3d question, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. Do you know a captain by the name of Silas S. Soule?
Answer. I know an officer by the name of Soule. I have heard him styled captain.
4th question, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. Did you see Captain Soule at the time you came on the Arkansas, and was he then in
command of a detachment of troops? If so, how many men had he under his command, and upon what duty were they ordered, and
were you with that command; did you accompany them?
Answer. I did see Captain Soule when I was on the Arkansas. He was in command of troops, to the best of my knowledge; I believe
he had twenty men. I heard them say they were ordered to go and see after my train. I accompanied the command.
5th question. Where was your train at that time?
Answer. It was on the Aubrey route, about thirty miles south of the Arkansas river.
6th question, Did Captain Soule start with his command for your train?
Answer. He started about the 2d of 3d day of December.
7th question. Were you with the command?
Answer. I was with the command.
8th question. At what hour did Captain Soule with his command start for your train?
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Answer. I suppose it was between 10 and 11 o'clock in the forenoon of the 2d or 3d day of December.
9th question. How far did the command go south of the Arkansas river?
Answer. I cannot give the exact distance; but I suppose, judging from the time we were going; we might have gone fifteen miles.
10th question. Did you see any Indians during the trip?
Answer. I did not?
11th question. Did the command go to your train?
Answer. They did not.
12th question. At what hour did Captain Soule's command return to place of starting?
Answer. The following day, in the morning, by 6 or 7 o'clock.
13th question. At what hour did the command arrive at the Arkansas?
Answer. We commenced to return to the Arkansas on the night of the same day. I cannot give the hour; between 7 and 8 o'clock, I
suppose.
14th question. Was Captain Soule with the command all this time?
Answer. He was.
15th question. Why did not Captain Soule proceed to the train?
Answer. He gave me his reasons; he had no provisions along, and he saw a fire in the direction where I suppose my train was, and
was afraid to go there.
16th question. Did you hear the report that Captain Soule made to Colonel Chivington, on his return from this expedition?
Answer. I heard Captain Soule making a statement to Colonel Chivington.
17th question. State as nearly as you can what that report or statement was.
Answer. He said that he had seen two Indian camps, and was from a half mile to a mile from them, and supposed the Indians
numbered from three to five hundred, and heard the dogs bark.
18th question. When was this report made?
Answer. It was made on the 4th or 5th of December.
19th question. Did you see any Indian camps on the expedition?
Answer. I did not see any Indians.
20th question. Did you see any fires?
Answer. I did see fires.
21st question. At what time?
Answer. I saw it in day-light; the smoke from 2 o'clock in the day until 12 o'clock at night.
22d question. How far from you and the command did the fire appear to be?
Answer. One fire I judged to be fifteen miles distant, and one fire I would suppose was a mile or a mile and a half distant.
23d question. Did you see anything more than the smoke of the fire?
Answer. I did not.
24th question. Did Captain Soule send any one forward to ascertain whether the smoke arose from a camp-fire of emigrants or of
Indians?
Answer. He did not. I insisted on his going, but he refused to do so.
25th question. Did he at the time say that he saw Indians?
Answer. He said he supposed they must be Indians?
26th question. In what condition was Captain Soule on this expedition; intoxicated, or not?
Answer. I should judge him to be drunk--judging from his actions.
27th question. In what condition was he when this command went into camp that night at the Arkansas?
Answer. He was drunk.
28th question. State did Colonel Chivington and his command pass the camp of Captain Soule that night on their way down the
Arkansas.
Answer. I did not see them; but I understand they did.
29th question. State what you know about Captain Soule's belief that his
PAGE 186
camp was attacked by Indians that night, and what occurred in connection therewith.
Answer. At about two o'clock. a. m., about the fourth or fifth of December, while we were in camp, we heard a great noise, indicating
that Indians were moving up or down the road. The sentinel, or whoever was on guard, gave the alarm of Indians, and everybody
was waked up. Captain Soule remained sleeping. The sergeant tried to wake him up, but he delayed and detained the company
about half an hour before he got awake or rational. When he got awake he did not know which was up or down the river. His
programme was to go up the river, to the camp where we started from, but he was unable to tell which was up or down, and I and
the sergeant insisted upon his going with us. We knew the road to the camp where we started from, and he insisted on his way of
going, but his company refused to follow him, and stated they never would go out with him any more on a scout. Finally he went the
way we wanted him to go--up the river, as we proposed.
30th question. Did you have any blankets upon that trip, and in whose possession or keeping were they?
Answer. I had blankets--two pair, and they were stolen from me.
31st question. By whom do you think they were taken?
Answer. I have reason to believe that either they were taken by Captain Soule or Lieutenant Cannon.
Cross-examined by judge advocate:
lst question. You say you are by occupation a freighter. State under what circumstances you became acquainted with Captain Soule.
Answer. I met Captain Soule in the command of Colonel Chivington on or about the 1st or 2d of December, 1864.
2d question. Was Captain Soule in command of troops at this time?
Answer. He was in command of troops.
3d question. How many men had he under his command?
Answer. To the best of my belief, there were about twenty men.
4th question. Where was Colonel Chivington's command at the time you became acquainted with Captain Soule?
Answer. He was at a place near Camp Wynkoop, about sixty miles from Fort Lyon.
5th question. How long did you remain at Camp Wynkoop?
Answer. I remained near Camp Wynkoop one night.
6th question. Was your train near Camp Wynkoop?
Answer. My train, I suppose, at that time was from thirty to forty miles from Camp Wynkoop.
7th question. Did you accompany Colonel Chivington's command?
Answer. I did.
8th question. How long were you with his command on the march?
Answer. I was with his command on the march between five and seven days. Not less than five nor more than seven days.
9th question. Was Captain Soule's command with Colonel Chivington's on the 4th of December?
Answer. It was, to the best of my belief.
10th question. State upon what expedition and for what purpose Captain Soule and his command were sent away from Colonel
Chivington's command.
Answer. Captain Soule told me that Colonel Chivington sent him out to see after my train, which was upon the Aubrey route on the
way to New Mexico.
11th question. Did Captain Soule tell you this while in Colonel Chivington's camp?
Answer. He told me this while on the road from the camp.
12th question. How far from Colonel Chivington's camp was it when he told you the object of his expedition?
PAGE 187
Answer. I would suppose within three miles of the camp.
13th question. Did you accompany the expedition with the consent of Captain Soule before he left camp?
Answer. I did not ask him before he left camp. I merely followed. Colonel Chivington told me that the command was going, and if I
wanted to go, I could do so.
14th question. Did you see Captain Soule drink any spirituous or intoxicating liquor when upon that expedition?
Answer. I did, sir.
15th question. How do you know it to have been spirituous or intoxicating?
Answer. He offered it to me, and I drank with him.
16th question. Did he drink frequently?
Answer. He did.
17th question. Did he offer it to you frequently?
Answer. He did.
18th question. Did you not drink upon such occasions with him?
Answer. I did.
19th question. Did you at any time refuse to drink with him?
Answer. I did.
20th question. How near your train did the expedition go?
Answer. I can only say indefinitely; I suppose we went within twenty miles of it.
21st question. How many days were you out upon that expedition? I mean the time between when you started, until your return to
place of starting?
Answer. I should say it was from eighteen to twenty hours.
22d question. At the time of an alarm in camp, did you see Captain Soule asleep, and know that it was difficult to arouse him?
Answer. I did, sir; I saw him asleep and tried to wake him up myself.
23d question. Did you advise his men not to follow him when he wished to go down the river, and tell them that Captain Soule was
wrong?
Answer. I did not exercise any influence over his men. I told the sergeant or corporal, in the hearing of the men, that the other way, up
the river, was the way we wanted to go.
24th question. Did you repeat this remark more than once?
Answer. I could not say whether I did or not.
25th question. Did you express to the men any dislike you felt for Captain Soule?
Answer. I did not.
26th question. Did you ever say to Captain Soule or Lieutenant Cannon, you thought he or they had stolen your blankets?
Answer. I made that assertion to Lieutenant Cannon through a letter, after hearing from Colonel Shoup that Dr. Leas, being in my
company when my blankets were taken, had said that he heard Lieutenant Cannon making his brags that he knew what became of
my blankets, and knew who had taken them. I have never accused him of taking the blankets.
Cross-examination, by judge advocate, here closed.
Direct examination by the counsel resumed:
1st question. How often and how much did you drink when you were upon that expedition with Captain Soule?
Answer. I drank twice, and very little.
LIPMAN MEYER.
Sworn and subscribed to before me this 7th day of April, A. D. 1865.
JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
Assistant Commissary of Musters, and Judge Advocate.
Witness: ALFRED SAYRE.
PAGE 188
I, Jno. C. Anderson, captain veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, judge advocate, Territory of Colorado, district of the plains, do
certify on honor, that, previous to the commencement of the examination of Mr. L. Meyer, he, the said L. Meyer, was duly sworn by me
to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth, so far as he should be interrogated.
The foregoing deposition was taken in my office, in the city of Denver, county of Arapahoe, Territory of Colorado, on the 7th day of
April A. D. 1865; and that after said deposition was taken by me as aforesaid, the interrogatories and answers thereto, as written
down, were read over to the said witness, and that thereupon the same was signed and sworn to by the said deponent, L. Meyer,
before me, the oath being administered by me, at the place and on the day and year last aforesaid.
JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
A. C. M., and Judge Advocate.
[Indorsements on the above paper.]
DENVER, COLORADO TERRITORY, April 7, 1865.
Evidence of Lipman Meyer, concerning the Sand creek affair, taken in absence of the military commission, by Captain John C.
Anderson, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, judge advocate, district of Colorado, on the 7th day of April, 1865.
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF COLORADO,
Denver, April 8, 1865.
Respectfully forwarded to Brigadier General Connor, commanding district of the plains.
T. MOONLIGHT.
Colonel Eleventh Cavalry, Commanding.
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF THE PLAINS,
Denver, April 10, 1865.
Respectfully forwarded to Captain George H. Stilwell, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, recorder of military commission.
By command:
GEORGE F. PRICE,
Acting Assistant Adjutant General.
I object to receiving, as evidence, the deposition of L. Meyer, for following reasons:
lst. The order of Colonel Moonlight, district commander, directing Captain Anderson to take deposition of L. Meyer, instructs him to
have the evidence of one L. Meyer taken regarding the Sand creek affair, to which the deposition has no reference, but refers to a
scout made afterwards, and therefore is not relevant to the matter of this investigation.
2d. It is evident that this witness has been introduced to testify that Captain Soule, on that scout, "was afraid, got drunk, and stole
blankets;" also that he refused to send men in advance, when he, Meyer, insisted upon his doing so--to push recklessly into the
heart of the Indian country, when his (Soule's) command was so small as hardly to justify his leaving camp, and under
circumstances requiring the greatest caution, would have been criminal, and his failing to do so is no evidence that he (Soule) was
afraid.
3d. Because it is evident that this deposition has been taken for the purpose of blackening the character of Captain Soule, to accuse
him of drunkenness, theft, and neglect of duty--this officer, who, since he was introduced before this commission as a witness has
been assassinated, twice before attempted, often threatened, and at last successful in his being instantly killed.
PAGE 189
4th. The said Captain Soule has been known to the undersigned for several years, and there is not in my opinion, any reason to
suspect him of being guilty of the charges alleged against him in the deposition of L. Meyer.
5th. For the reason that Captain Soule having been introduced before this commission to testify in regard to the Sand creek affair,
has been made subject to threats and assaults against his life, and as appears from annexed statement of Captain Price, who had
a conversation with the deceased in reference to the affair of Sand creek, that Captain Soule had reason to believe that his
assassination had been determined on, and that attempts would be made to blacken his character after his death, on account of
certain evidence given by him, the said Captain Soule, before this commission;
"During the latter part of March, 1865, Captain Silas S. Soule and myself were riding in a buggy from Denver, Colorado Territory, to
Central City, Colorado Territory. In a conversation had on that occasion, he referred to the affair at Sand creek, Colorado Territory,
and the nature of his testimony about it; that he fully expected to be killed on account of that testimony; that he was also fully
satisfied, after they had killed him, his character would be assailed, and an attempt made to destroy his testimony before a certain
commission instructed to take testimony concerning the said Sand creek affair.
"I testified the above in substance before a certain coroner's jury held in this town over the body of Captain Silas S. Soule, who was
assassinated in the streets of Denver on the night of April 23, 1865.
"GEORGE F. PRICE,
"Captain Second California Cavalry, Denver City, C. T.,
"District Inspector and A. A. A. General.
"MAY 3, 1865."
Therefore I object to receive as evidence the deposition of the said L. Meyer.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Colonel Vet. Batt., First Colorado Cavalry,
President Military Commission.
The following protest was filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened as per
Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado:
I protest against the objections made by Lieutenant Colonel S. F. Tappan president of said commission--
1st. That the action of the president of this commission in going inside of the record in making his objections, by relating
conversations, &c., related by others, is, to say the least, manifesting an interest in the disposition of this case that does not accord
with the presumption we must entertain of his impartial feelings in regard to the matter.
2d. That the evidence of Mr. Meyer, a person who was with Captain Soule, and who testified in compliance with orders, &c., from the
general commanding, was given before Captain Soule's death, and to Captain Soule's knowledge, while they, Soule and Meyer,
were both in Denver; that the intimations thrown out by the president of this commission in regard to the death of Captain Soule,
calling it "an assassination," when it is well known that Captain Soule was killed by one Squires, a soldier of the second Colorado
Cavalry, which Squires admitted before he made his escape, is, to say the least, not becoming the dignity of one holding the
position of president of a tribunal such as this commission is supposed to be, and appears to me more like malice than a desire to
fairly object to the question. Hoping such is not the case,
I remain, respectfully,
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
Commission rooms were cleared for discussion. Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
PAGE 190
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
(The objection of Lieutenant Colonel Samuel F. Tappan, president of the commission, relative to deposition of one L. Meyer,
sustained by the commission.)
T. G. CREE, late captain third Colorado cavalry, introduced by J. M. Chivington, to give evidence. The oath being administered
according to law, he (Cree) testified as follows:
Question. What is your name, and what position have you occupied in the army for the last three years? State particularly.
Answer. Theodore G. Cree. I have been in the army part off the time as an officer, both in the States and Colorado Territory. Very near
three years ago I went into the army as second lieutenant after the battle of Vicksburg, promoted to captain in the 23d Iowa infantry.
On the 27th of August, 1863, I resigned on account of ill health, and came to this country. In the latter part of July, (I think it was,)
1864, upon the request of Governor Evans, of Colorado, I raised a company for the third Colorado cavalry. I held the position of
captain until mustered out on account of expiration of time of service.
Question. Did you have any conversation with Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, or other officers, in regard to the propriety of
attacking the Indians at Sand creek, either before or after the battle of Sand creek? If so, state what that conversation was.
Answer. I had a conversation with Major Anthony after the battle of Sand creek, at the last camp down the Arkansas, I think about one
hundred miles below Fort Lyon. Colonel Chivington was talking of moving back, and not pursuing the Indians; and further, I was
talking with Major Anthony in his tent about the propriety of going back, and he said that he was very much opposed to it, and said he
should do all he could to prevent it. He said that we had done a good thing, and he believed in following it up; that he knew about
where their camp was or where they made their headquarters, and he thought we could catch them. That is about all the
conversation I had with him in regard to that matter.
Question. Do you remember anything else Major Anthony said in regard to the Indians at Sand creek? If so, state it.
Answer. I don't recollect anything else he said; I did not pay much attention to what he said at the time; I thought he was about
two-thirds tight.
Question. On your return toward Denver, and while at Colonel Bent's ranch, at the mouth of the Purgatory, did you have a
conversation with any officer in regard to Colonel Chivington; and if so, what was that conversation, and who was the officer or
officers?
Answer. I had a conversation there with Lieutenant Cramer in regard to Colonel Chivington and officers of the third. I don't recollect
all the conversation that occurred there; I recollect of his saying that all that Colonel Chivington was working for was a brigadier
general's commission, and that he did not care how many lives he lost in getting it so that he got it; and that we (meaning himself
and I don't know who else} were going to crush him if we could. He said he thought they could make a massacre out of the Sand
creek affair and crush him. I asked him what Colonel Chivington had done to him to make him hate him so. He said that he did not
know that he had done anything. He said he would like to see the Indians killed just as much as we would. He said they had got
their play in on Chivington and they were going to play it. Then I told him that there no use of our discussing that question, as we
would only make enemies of ourselves, and I thought it was best for us not to say any thing more about it. The rest of our talk was
not in connection with this affair.
Question. Did you have any conversation with Cramer in regard to the guerillas that were killed?
PAGE 191
(Question objected to by Lieutenant Colonel Tappan, president of the commission on the grounds of its being leading.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you have any conversation with Cramer in regard to guerillas? If so, what was the conversation? State particularly.
Answer. I had some conversation with him in regard to guerillas: They were known by the name of Reynolds's party. He wanted to
know what my orders were in relation to them. I told him my orders were to take them to Captain Gray's camp on the Arkansas and
to turn them over to him, and he was to take them to Fort Lyon. Then he wanted to know what was done with them; I told him that
they died for the want of breath; he said that was another murder of Colonel Chivington's. I asked him how he knew; he said he did
not know for certain, but he thought it was done to enable him to get his brigadier's straps. I told him he was badly mistaken; that I
took that all on myself. He said that he did not like to dispute my word, but that he could not think otherwise but what it was orders
from Chivington. I told him I could not help what he thought; that is about all that was said in reference to them. He said he hoped.
they were in heaven; I said I hoped so too, as I thought they would be better off there than in this country.
Question. Did you, at any time during that conversation with Cramer, state that the guerillas were killed by Chivington's orders?
Answer. I did not.
Question. Upon your arrival at Colonel Bent's with your detachment, did you take command of all the troops at that place? If so, state
what you did.
Answer. I took command of the troops that were there as soon as I arrived. I gave Lieutenant Cramer an order to report at Fort Lyon
in his own district the next morning. I also gave the lieutenant commanding detachment of third regiment orders to report to his
command at Bent's old fort.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer obey the order you gave him?
Answer. I suppose he did. He left there the next morning the same time I left.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer make any remarks to you concerning the order you gave him?
Answer. No.
Direct examination of T. G. Cree by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of T. G. Cree, by the commission:
Question. What was the date of your muster into the service as captain third Colorado cavalry, and the date of your muster out?
Answer. Mustered in, I think, the 20th of August, 1864. Mustered out the 28th of December, (I think it was,) 1864.
Question. Who were present at Colonel Bent's during the conversation you had with Lieutenant Cramer?
Answer. Colonel Bent. He was there part of the time, and a part of the time we were alone. Part of the time Lieutenant Graham was
present.
Question. How many of Reynolds's party were you ordered to take to Camp Fillmore?
Answer. Five, I believe.
Question. Where and from whom did you receive these prisoners?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the reason that the court has no right to cross examine in relation to new matter not
called out in the examination in chief.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What did you tell Lieutenant Cramer you had done with these prisoners?
Answer. I did not tell him I had done anything with them.
PAGE 192
Question. In what manner, and by what authority, did you assume command of all the troops at Colonel Bent's?
Answer. I assumed command by order of Colonel Shoup, commanding the troops on their way up to Denver.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer report to you for orders?
Answer. He did not.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer say the Indians at Sand creek were under the protection of the government, as a reason for his
denouncing the fight as a murder or massacre?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, on the ground that it is new matter, not called on the examination in chief, and therefore
illegal.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What did you tell Lieutenant Cramer you took all on yourself?
Answer. In regard to disposing of those "guerrillas."
Question. Did you refer to the killing of them?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the reason that the witness has not stated anything in regard to the killing of the
guerillas, therefore this is new matter and illegal.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. In your conversation with Lieutenant Cramer, who did you refer to as having died for the want of breath?
Answer. I referred to James Reynolds and his guerilla party.
Cross-examination of T. G. Cree by the commission closed.
Re-examination:
No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 8½ a. m. to morrow, May 6, 1865.
FIFTY-SEVENTH DAY.
MAY 6, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
S. P. ASHCRAFT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Ashcraft)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name, and how long have you lived in what is now known as Colorado Territory, and how long have you
been acquainted with the Indians of the plains?
Answer. Samuel Plummer Ashcraft; I have been in Colorado Territory since 1857; I have known the Indians of the plains since 1847.
Question. What have been your means of knowledge of the Indians of the plains? State particularly.
Answer. I have been with them and traded with them; as for the Sioux Indians, I expect I understand them about as well as any
person in the country. The Cheyennes, I expect I understand their ways and actions as well as the Sioux, but I do not speak their
language as well.
Question. Do you know whether or not the Cheyenne and Sioux Indians have been at war with the whites? If yes, please state you
first knowledge of it--particularly, as well as you know, of their hostile acts.
Answer. Yes, I know they were at war with the whites, and more than that, I know that they commenced the war with the whites. In the
first part of this war, some sixteen or eighteen Cheyennes came from some place on the headwaters of Beaver creek, and came
into Frémont's Orchard; a day or two, I think, before they came in, they took some horses and mules from a man, who came in and
reported the fact to Captain Sanborn. Captain Sanborn sent out Lieutenant Dunn with a squad of men--I don't know how many, I
PAGE 193
think fifteen. Under what orders Lieutenant Dunn was, I do not know. After Lieutenant Dunn found these Indians near Frémont's
Orchard, on the north side of the South Platte, he went to them and ordered them to give up their arms; his men dismounted to take
their arms. They gave up one gun and a single barrelled pistol. The Indians then turned and fired. I suppose they fired three or four
shots before the soldiers fired; one of their men that died was shot before the soldiers fired. They had a fight there, which lasted
probably an hour and a half. Lieutenant Dunn had two men killed and four wounded. The Indians had two of their number wounded,
none killed.
Question. Did you hear any rumors of hostility from the Indians toward the whites before this?
Answer. Yes; the winter before. All winter I heard it from the Indians three or four different times.
Question. State what you heard from the Indians.
Answer. The Sioux told me that the Cheyennes had been talking of war with the whites all winter. They said that they (the
Cheyennes) were going to war against the whites on the road in the spring; that they were going to clean out all the ranchmen that
were on the road. (They came mighty near telling the truth, too.)
Question. What is your means of knowledge of the facts concerning the fight Lieutenant Dunn had with the Indians near Frémont's
orchard; did you see the fight, or only hear of it through others?
Answer. I only heard of it through others.
Question. Do you know of any acts of hostility perpetrated by the Indians upon the whites; if yes, please state what those acts were,
and what Indians perpetrated them?
Answer. I know that they killed men and drove off stock. They drove off some of my stock and killed one of my men, the next after they
had the fight with Lieutenant Dunn.
Direct examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by the commission:
Question. Where do you at present reside?
Answer. I live about fifty miles below here on the Platte. I also have a ranch one hundred miles below here on the Platte. I live there
part of the time.
Question. When did the Sioux Indians come into what is now known as Colorado Territory?
Answer. I don't recollect. Before '47 they were in this country.
Question. Are you acquainted with all the Cheyennes?
Answer. I am acquainted with all the different bands of Cheyennes.
Question. Into how many bands were the Cheyennes divided?
Answer. Four bands of them.
Question. Of what band were those Indians who had the fight with Lieutenant Dunn?
Answer. They were a part of Black Kettle's band.
Question. Were they what is known as Dog soldiers?
Answer. They were not. The Dog soldiers are Bull Bear's band.
Question. How many horses and mules did these Indians steal before crossing into Frémont's Orchard?
Answer. I am not positive of more than two.
Question. Where is Beaver creek--head-waters of it?
Answer. It heads under the divide between the Platte and Arkansas, and empties into the Platte. The head of it is about eighty-five
miles southeast from here.
Ex. Doc. 26-----13
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Question. What is your means of knowledge that the Cheyennes stole a horse and a mule before reaching Frémont's Orchard?
Answer. They acknowledged it. They said that they had found them, and the man they were taken from said they stole them.
Question. What did the Indians do with the horse and mule?
Answer. One of them the soldiers got; the other they kept.
Question. Was the taking of this horse and mule the commencement of the Indian difficulties?
Answer. I do not think it was. They claimed that the whites were beating them out of their land. They were dissatisfied with the Boone
treaty. I think this treaty was in the spring of 1861.
Question. Was the taking of this horse the first hostile act of the Indians against the whites?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Was this considered by the people an act of war, or the commencement of war by the Indians against the whites?
(John. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the reason that the opinion of Mr. Ashcraft is not proper; that the
court has commenced the examination of the witness on new matter, and that the witness has stated the knowledge he has of the
facts is from others.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What bands of the Cheyennes were referred to by the Sioux as intending to make war upon the whites?
Answer. All of them. They were all then in the village.
Question. Is what you have stated your only means of information that the Cheyennes intended to make war upon the whites?
Answer. Yes. My information came through the Indians.
Cross-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your means of knowledge of the fight between Lieutenant Dunn and the Indians, and the stealing of horse and
mule or horses and mules; is it from others, or did you see these things?
Answer. Only from the Indians and the whites.
Re-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft closed.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
STEPHEN DECATUR introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Decatur)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name and are you acquainted with the habits and customs of Indians. If yes, state how long you have
been acquainted, and what your means of knowledge were?
Answer. Stephen Decatur. I lived among the Indians nearly seven years.
Question. Where were you on the 29th day of November, 1864? Have you been in the army?
Answer. I was at Sand creek. I served in the Mexican War, and also in the hundred day regiment of Colorado, (third regiment of
Colorado cavalry.) Question. Please state particularly what occurred at Sand creek of your own knowledge only.
Answer. We came in sight of the village about daylight, or a little after. I think it was about sunrise, or a little after, when our company
was ordered to halt in the bed of the creek, by Colonel Chivington, and strip for the fight. We then moved up a short distance and
unlimbered, (I belonged to Captain
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Morgan's company, C, artillery,) and commenced throwing shell. I was not with the company all the time, for the reason that
Lieutenant Colonel Bowen had requested me to act as his battalion adjutant. This firing took place near the upper end of the village;
after firing a few rounds the company was ordered forward, and we took a position about three quarters of a mile above the village;
at which place, and near there, I remained the principal part of the day. I saw one man lying dead, partially under his horse, in the
village. I saw a number of wounded passing up to the ambulances. I saw one fellow with a squaw prisoner and a child. He asked
what he should do with them. I told him to take them up to headquarters. To sum it all up in brief, that was my fourth battle, and I
never saw harder fighting on both sides in my life. The next day after the battle I went over the battle-ground, in the capacity of clerk,
for Lieutenant Colonel Bowen, and counted four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors. I will here explain that a question was raised
in camp what chiefs were killed. Lieutenant Colonel Bowen took an escort of troops and went over the field. John Smith was taken
along to recognize the chiefs and the principal warriors that were killed, I acting as clerk, and I took pleasure in going, as the
evening before, while the village was being burned, (which was not all completely destroyed when I came back to camp, which was
in the Indian village,) I saw that which made me feel as though I should have liked to have spent a little more time fighting. As I was
going out to get some of the lodge-poles for wood, I saw some of the men opening bundles or bales. I saw them take therefrom a
number of white persons' scalps--men's, women's, and children's; some daguerreotypes, ladies' wearing apparel and white
children's, and saw part of a lady's toilet and one box of rouge, also a box containing a powder puff. I saw one scalp of a white
woman in particular that I want to describe to you. It had been taken entirely off the head; the head had been skinned, taking all the
hair; the scalp had been tanned to preserve it; the hair was auburn and hung in ringlets; it was very long hair. There were two holes
in the scalp in front, for the purpose of tying it on their heads when they appeared in the scalp dance. Seeing all these things made
me anxious to go over the battle-ground and see haw many we had killed. I saw, comparatively speaking, a small number of
women killed. They were in the rifle pits. (The most of them where it would have been impossible to have avoided killing them if we
had been ever so much disposed to save them.) After going over the main battle-ground we returned to the village, and I did all I
could to destroy their effects. That is, in brief, what I saw on the 29th and 30th of last November at Sand creek. There is one matter
that occurs to me just at this moment: Just after our artillery had ceased firing, I saw an acquaintance in the bed of the creek, and I
told him he was in a dangerous place, and asked him what he was going to do, and (I thought I would have a little fun on my own
hook) he said there was an Indian in a hole under the bank that could talk English, (this was in reply to me,) and I started to go to
him; just as I got near the edge of the bank he hallooed out to me not to come down there, for the Indian would shoot me; as I turned
on my heel to go away from the bank, I heard a voice under the bank say, "Come on, you God damn white sons of bitches, and kill
me if you are a brave man."
Question. Were the scalps you speak of the scalps of white men, women and children?
Answer. Yes, they were.
Question. Had the Indians prepared any rifle-pits, or other means of defence, on your arrival at the village on Sand creek, on the 29th
day of November, 1864?
Answer. They must have done it, as there were holes longer and deeper than they could have dug after we attacked them in the
morning. That is my honest opinion.
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Question. Describe these rifle-pits, how they were constructed, and where dug.
Answer. They were dug under the banks, and in the bed of the creek, and, in fact, all over, where there was a little mound or bunch of
grass or weeds favorable for concealment. They were dug with hoes or shovels large enough for a man to operate in, from three to
four feet wide, some six feet long and longer. That is my recollection of it now. I did not measure them. I thought at the time that they
must have been dug, for the reason that at the first camp from the battle-field I found some of the same kind of pits, where they (the
Indians) had camped quite recently before.
Question. Were you at the village when the attack was first made by the troops on the Indians?
Answer. I was not quite in the village; I saw it.
Direct examination of Stephen Decatur, by J. M. Chivington, closed.
Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur, by the commission:
Question. Where do you reside?
Answer. In Denver.
Question. What position did you hold in the third regiment?
Answer. Commissary sergeant of company C.
Question. You say you counted four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors. Where did you find these dead Indians?
Answer. Scattered promiscuously over the battle-ground.
Question. How large was the battle-ground?
Answer. It was pretty extensive. We, I should think, went up the creek about three miles, as near as I could judge from the time we
rode.
Question. Did you ride all over the battle-ground?
Answer. There was one portion of the battle-ground that I did not go on. John Smith had recognized Black Kettle, Little Robe, and
White Antelope, and the near approach of night caused the lieutenant colonel to return to camp.
Question. Who accompanied you?
Answer. Lieutenant Colonel Bowen, in command, and Lieutenant De La Mar, in command of the escort, and John Smith, who I
understand was the Indian interpreter at Fort Lyon, whom we found in the village trading with the Indians.
Question. At what time did you start out to ride over the battle-field to count the dead?
Answer. My impression now is that it was between two and three o'clock in the afternoon of the 30th of November, 1864.
Question. At what time did you return to camp?
Answer. Not a great while before night; about time to eat a little, and fix my bed, before it was dark.
Question. Was it during this ride you saw the four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors?
Answer. Yes, the ride on the 30th, I said.
Question. Who did the counting of the dead for the party?
Answer. I did on my own hook, for my own satisfaction.
Question. On which side of the creek did you see the dead Indians?
Answer. I saw them on both sides, and in the bed of the creek.
Question. Did you ride up one side of the creek and down the other?
Answer. Our route took us up angling across from one bank to the other, and coming back we returned on the east side of the bank
nearly all the way on the prairie. I do not know that my knowledge of the points of the compass is right, but we returned on the side
next to Lort Fyon. [sic]
Question. How many did you see on the east side of the creek?
Answer. I did not keep an account of their exact whereabouts. I did not
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expect to be called upon at any time to give any testimony in regard to it before a military commission.
Question. Were there any dead Indians on the east side of the creek?
Answer. If the east side is next to Fort Lyon, there were.
Question. How many, or what proportion of the whole number, did you see on the east side of the creek?
Answer. On what I call the east side, on the prairie, i. e., out of the bed of the creek, there was only a small proportion of the four
hundred and fifty.
Question. How many or what proportion of the whole number did you see on the west side of the creek?
Answer. I cannot say, as I did not think at the time of remembering their whereabouts or their particular position on the battle-field.
Question. Did you see any dead Indians in the bed of the creek?
Answer. Yes, plenty of them.
Question. How many did you see in the bed of the creek?
Answer. I don't recollect what proportion were in the bed of the creek, but the most of the whole number I saw were in the bed of the
creek.
Question. How far above the village did you see the dead Indians?
Answer. I commenced counting at the village and about three miles or there abouts up the creek, and counted on my return those
that lay upon the prairie.
Question. Did the Indians appear as having been disturbed after they were killed?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That the question is in relation to new matter
which was not called out by the examination in chief; that it is therefore illegal and improper; The witness, in his examination in
chief, did not state, nor was he asked, anything about the Indians, whether they were disturbed or not.)
Commission rooms were cleared for deliberation.
Commission adjourned until 9 a m. Monday, May 8, 1865.
FIFTY-EIGHTH DAY.
MAY 8, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The objection of J. M. Chivington not having been decided, the commission rooms were cleared for deliberation.
Commission rooms again opened and the following decision of the commission announced, viz:
The objection of J. M. Chivington to question before adjournment, Saturday, May 6, 1865, not sustained by the commission.
The following request was filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened in pursuance of Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of
Colorado, &c.:
We would most respectfully request of the commission that they would have the following persons summoned immediately, to
testify to the subject-matter of this investigation.
Jay J. Johnson, Central City; D. H. Nichols, Boulder; Hal. Sayre, Central City; C. C. Hawley, Central City; Dr. James Bell, Idaho; David
Ripley, Boulder; Alexander F. Safely, company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
MAY 8, 1865.
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Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur by the commission, continued:
Answer to last question before adjournment, Saturday, May 6, 1865. They did appear to have been disturbed, some of them, not all.
Question. What Indians have you lived among for nearly seven years.
Answer. The Omahas, Ottoes and Missourias, Pawnees, Poncas, Santee, Sioux, and Yancton Sioux; I resided at Bellevue,
Nebraska Territory. I became intimately acquinted [sic] with the Omaha language, and well enough acquainted with the language of
all the rest to trade with them.
Question. What acquaintance have you with the Cheyennes and Arapahoes of the Upper Arkansas agency?
Answer. No personal acquaintance with them, only at Sand creek.
Question. You say Sand creek was your fourth battle, name the other three?
Answer. Battle of Brazito, Sacramento, about eleven or fifteen miles north of the city of Chihuahua, and in the State of Chihuahua.
The next was an Indian fight which occurred at a ranch about fifteen or twenty miles north of the city of Paras. It was with the White
Lipans or Comanches. I have seen the White Lipans or Comanches scalp their own men to prevent their scalps from being taken
by the whites.
Question. You say your name is Stephen Decatur; are you a descendant of the celebrated commodore of that name?
Answer. I am distantly connected.
Question. How do you know the scalps you saw were those of white men, women, and children?
Answer. By the color and fineness of their hair; I never saw an Indian with auburn hair in my life.
Question. How do you know the wearing apparel you saw in Black Kettle's camp was that of white women and children?
Answer. I know the habits and customs of the Indians, especially the wild Indians of the plains, well enough to know their prejudices
against the wearing apparel of the whites. I know that they had no person among them well skilled enough to make the dresses I
saw there.
Question. Are not the Cheyennes an exception to that rule? Have they not for years employed white women to make dresses for
their women and children, and received dress goods from their agent?
Answer. I don't know what has been given to them by their agents.
Question. Were not the tanned scalps you speak of as being auburn of a dull rusty color, very coarse in texture, and formerly of a
dark color, but faded by age?
Answer. No.
Question. What became of that scalp?
Answer. I do not know.
Question. Have you seen it since the time you speak of?
Answer. No. I heard that it was in town, and heard that it was in Boulder district somewhere, but I have not seen it.
Question. How near did you ride to the four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors on the 30th of November last?
Answer. Near enough to count them and be positive.
Question. Did you keep a tally of the dead Indians as you passed them?
Answer. Every time I counted a hundred I dotted them down on my thumbnail. I will here state the reason I was so particular in
counting is this: I was at the house of Mrs. Hungate a few days before she was murdered, and I became attached to her and her
babes and I wished her friends to know how many of the bloody villains we had killed.
Question. Did you see the bodies of Black Kettle, White Antelope, Little Robe, and other chiefs as you rode over the field?
PAGE 199
Answer. I did, if John Smith told the truth. He pointed out what he said were the bodies of White Antelope, Black Kettle, and Little
Robe.
Question. Did you or your party scalp or mutilate these dead Indians?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That, like the question in relation to the
white women employed by the savages, and the dress-goods issued to the Indians, it is irrelevant and improper; that it is examining
on new matter, which is improper on a cross-examination, and to which we would have objected when the inquiry was made in
regard to the white women employed by the savages, but we thought the question so ridiculous to a person at all acquainted with
the Indians that we did not object, though if that led to the present question, we claim not to have lost any right that we may have to
object to the present question.)
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all the members and recorder.
The objection of J. M. Chivington before adjournment this a. m. overruled by the commission.
Answer. So far as I am concerned, I do not think I am a competent witness to exculpate or criminate myself. So far as any gentleman
of the party is concerned, I saw no mutilating or scalping by any of them.
Question. Have you now, or have you had since the 29th of November, 1864, in your possession, as trophies of Sand creek, ears
brought here to present to any person?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question relates to new matter and
is therefore improper, having no right in a cross-examination to inquire into anything except that which was called out by the defence.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What were the depth, location, and number of the holes you saw at Sand creek, and call rifle-pits?
Answer. There were a great many of them, I did not count the number; they were deep enough for men to lie down and conceal
themselves, and load their guns in; some of them I should think were deeper than three feet. They were under the banks and in
every possible place where any degree of concealment could be afforded in the bed of the creek. They were all in the bed of the
creek. I saw none on the high prairie. They were above the village.
Question. What is the character of the soil in Sand creek where you saw the holes or rifle-pits?
Answer. Sandy, with strata of hard baked gravel.
Question. You say you saw some similar holes at a former and abandoned camp of Indians; state how many of these holes you
saw, and if these holes are not common in the Cheyenne camps, constructed for domestic purposes?
Answer. In all Indian villages in which I have been, they usually dug holes for the purpose of cooking meat. Those holes are dug in
the village, in the confines of the village, near the lodges. They do not go a mile or a half mile from camp; but these holes I saw were
not for cooking purposes, unless they cooked on a larger scale than any Indians I ever saw, or knew.
Question. What became of the scalps you saw in the camp, and who saw them besides yourself?
Answer. They were in the possession of various ones; I saw some of them a number of times in the road. I would know the men if I
saw them, but I do not know their names; I can find out, I think, if the court desires it.
Question. Have you ever gone by any other name than that of Stephen Decatur?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question is insulting to the witness,
and the court, instead of
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putting such questions, should protect the witness from them; that the question is irrelevant and improper, not pertaining to the
subject-matter of this investigation, upon which the court has recently decided that such evidence is improper; that the witness has
been introduced to testify in regard to Sand creek and not regarding his own private matters; that it is immaterial to this court
whether the witness goes by one name or another. Though the Indians might have called him by another name than Decatur; the
custom is a common one, known to all white men in this Territory, when coming in contact with Indians.
Commission room were cleared for discussion.
Commission rooms opened:
Objection of J. M. Chivington overruled by the commission.)
Answer. Not among white men; it is customary among Indians to give the traders an Indian name.
Question. Did the Indians, or others, ever call you by the name of Bross?
Answer. No.
Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Stephen Decatur.
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. You stated you wished to make an amendment to your testimony; you will please do it now.
Answer. I said this morning that a great deal had been said about a white flag--about the Indians sending out a white flag, a flag of
truce. I saw none.
Question. Was there anything occurred, or any conversation had by any person in regard to a white flag? If so, please state what that
was particularly.
Answer. I never had any conversation with any one, only a short time since, and that was with Captain McCannon, and what I saw
charged in the paper, "that we had fired on the Indians after they had exhibited a white flag." I don't recollect of having any
conversation with any one about it, except Captain McCannon.
Question. If there had been a white flag shown by the Indians, would you have seen it?
Answer. Yes, I think I would.
Re-examination of Stephen Decatur closed.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 9, 1865.
FIFTY-NINTH DAY.
MAY 9, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
HENRY H. HEWITT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Hewitt)
testified as follows:
Question. What has been your occupation during the past eight months? If in the army, what position did you occupy, &c.?
Answer. On the 17th day of September, 1864 I was mustered into the service as second lieutenant, company I, third Colorado
cavalry, (one-hundred-days men,) and served in that capacity for the period of one hundred days.
Question. In your official capacity did you or not receive any ponies, &c., said to be captured at the battle of Sand creek? If so, state
the particulars.
Answer. I did. While in command of a detachment of the third Colorado cavalry, en route to Fort Lyon, on or about the 5th day of
December, 1864, while camping at Boone's ranch, I received information that one Duncan McKeith, and some Mexicans of
Lieutenant Antobe's detachment, had run off some ponies and mules while the fight was progressing at Sand creek. Thinking it
PAGE 201
my duty to inquire into the matter, I took a detachment of men and proceeded across the Arkansas river to Charles Antobe's ranch,
and surrounded the corral to prevent the escape of men and stock, if there concealed. I went into the corral and found Duncan
McKeith in a room adjoining the corral, who informed me that he had driven off between sixty and seventy head of ponies and mules
while the battle was progressing at Sand creek; that he did this by order of Lieutenant Antobe, and that Lieutenant Antobe said to
him that both Colonels Chivington and Shoup knew that the stock was driven off, and raised no objection to it. I took Duncan McKeith
and four Mexicans, (names not now recollected) in charge, and seized between sixty and seventy head of ponies and mules, and
drove them across the Arkansas river to Boone's ranche, where I placed them under guard. On the following morning I started with
the ponies and mules and Mexicans, with Duncan McKeith, for Fort Lyon, where I arrived on the 8th or 9th of December, 1864; on
arriving at Fort Lyon, I found from general conversation with officers and soldiers at the fort that the ponies and mules had been
stolen while the battle of Sand creek was progressing; also, that another herd had been driven over on the Cimaron, towards New
Mexico. Colonel Chivington arrived at Fort Lyon from pursuit of the Indians, after the battle of Sand creek, (as I was informed by
different persons,) the second night after my arrival at Fort Lyon. I reported to Colonel Chivington my action in seizing the ponies,
mules, and men in charge. His reply was, "You have done perfectly right; I am glad you did it; the men had no authority from myself
or Colonel Shoup to drive the stock off when they did. Lieutenant Antobe was instructed to drive the captured stock to Fort Lyon." I
turned in the stock which I took at Antobe's ranch, except four or five head that were re-stolen, and two head that gave out on the
road, to Lieutenant C. M. Cossitt, acting quartermaster at Fort Lyon, taking his receipt therefor. That, I think, comprises all I can say
on that question. I will say this: Colonel Chivington said to me, "that it was a scandal, that while the troops were fighting the Indians,
some scoundrels should shrink to plunder," or words to that effect. Colonel Chivington ordered me (verbally) to report, with my
detachment to Colonel Shoup, in command of third Colorado cavalry, which I did the day following.
Direct examination of Henry H. Hewitt by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Henry. H. Hewitt, by the commission:
Question. Were the parties you have mentioned as driving off or stealing the stock a portion of Colonel Chivington's command?
Answer. They were; so they informed me.
Question. Did Colonels Chivington or Shoup ever place these parties under arrest, and bring them to punishment for their acts?
Answer. I do not know.
Question. Were these ponies and mules included in the number reported captured from the Indians, by Colonel Chivington?
Answer. I cannot say, from my own knowledge; I was not present at the battle of Sand creek.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cossitt give you a memorandum receipt for the ponies?
Answer. He did, for the ponies and mules.
Question. Did you take this stock upon your returns as government property, and account for it as turned over to Lieutenant Cossitt?
Answer. I made a report to Colonel Shoup of the stock, but not to the Quartermaster General, from the fact that I did not consider
(never having receipted for the stock) that I was required to make a report to the Quartermaster General. I merely took Lieutenant
Cossitt's memorandum receipt for my own protection.
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I also made a report in writing to Lieutenant Charles Wheeler, acting adjutant general of the district of Colorado.
Cross-examination of Henry H. Hewitt by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Henry H. Hewitt:
No questions asked.
The following copy of request and affidavit filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened at Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of Special Orders
No. 23, headquarters District of Colorado, &c.:
GENTLEMEN: We would most respectfully request that you summon and cause to appear before your honorable court, without fail,
one Alexander Safely, company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, to testify to all he knows concerning the marches of the
troops under command of Colonel J. M. Chivington, first Colorado cavalry, and the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864,
said Safely being an important witness in the investigation of said marches and battle; as will more fully appear by accompanying
affidavit.
Most respectfully,
JOHN M. CHIVINGTON,
Late Colonel First Colorado Cavalry.
John M. Chivington, late colonel first Colorado cavalry, being first duly sworn, deposes and says that one Alexander F. Safely,
company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, is material witness in his behalf to show certain facts connected with the
marches and battle of Sand creek, before the military commission now convened in Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of
Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado, &c.; that the said facts, or all of them, cannot be shown by any other
person that I know of at present, and that without the said Alexander F. Safely he would lose very reliable evidence which would
materially affect his acts in the eyes of the government; and further deponent saith not.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 9th day of May 1865.
[SEAL.] ---------------,
Notary Public.
The recorder is hereby ordered to summon the witnesses as requested by J. M. Chivington.
By order of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 2 o'clock. this p. m.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Dr. CALEB S. BIRDSAL introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law; he (Burdsal)
testified as follows:
Question. Did you occupy a position in the third regiment Colorado cavalry? If so what was it, and were you at the battle of Sand
creek fought November 29, 1864?
Answer. I was first assistant surgeon, and I was at the battle of Sand creek.
Question. Did you see any captured or pressed property for any purpose? If yes, please state all the particulars concerning its final
disposition, &c.
Answer. On the afternoon of the 29th (after the battle) I went to Colonel Chivington and Colonel Shoup; told them that I was going to
take some buffalo
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robes for the wounded from John Smith's (Indian interpreter and trader) wagon; that I had no blankets to cover the wounded. I
detailed three or four men to go with me, and when I arrived there the larger amount of soldiers there (there were a great number of
soldiers there) pitched in and got a large number of robes at the same time. I suppose that they thought every man was helping
himself. I can't tell the number I got, as I never counted them, but I should think in the neighborhood of forty. That same evening
Colonel Shoup requested me to return John Smith some of the robes to sleep on. I returned five or six, I think. Of the balance of the
robes, a portion was stolen from the sick out of the lodges, some were claimed by others on the grounds that they had left them for
the use of the wounded, the balance were given to the wounded soldiers.
Question. Did you have any conversation with any parties at Fort Lyon in relation to captured property? If yes, please state who the
parties were and what the conversation was.
Answer. I think I had a conversation once with Major Anthony, first cavalry of Colorado, and Dr. Leas, assistant surgeon on the staff.
The major asked me what had become of those robes I took from John Smith; that John Smith had lost one hundred and fifteen
robes, and the government would have to pay twenty dollars apiece for them. Dr. Leas asked me the same question, and wanted to
know what had become of two hundred robes I took, and that government would have to pay twenty dollars apiece for them if they
were not returned. I remarked wherever they could find any of John Smith's robes to go and take them, as I had other business to
attend to.
Question. Did you see any white scalps at Sand creek? If yes, please state the particulars in regard to them.
Answer. I think it was about three or four o'clock p. m., November 29, the day of the battle, I was in the lodge dressing the wounded;
some man came to the opening of the lodge and hallooed to me to look at five or six scalps he had in his hand. I should judge, from
a casual look, that they were the scalps of white persons.
Question. Did you see all the wounded of Colonel Chivington's command? If yes, please state whether, in your professional
opinion, any of them were wounded by their own comrades.
Answer. Yes, I saw all the wounded; my impression is two or three were wounded by their own comrades; I judge from the size and
cavity of the bullet wounds.
Question. Do you know what arms the Indians had, and whether they had not arms in their possession, and used on the field
November 29, 1864, capable of inflicting wounds whose cavities would be as large and deep as any in possession of the troops?
Answer. I am not capable of answering that, as I did not examine particularly their guns; I was busy, and was not away from the
lodge over ten steps.
Direct examination of Dr. Caleb S. Burdsal by J. M. Chivington closed
Cross-examination of Dr. Caleb S. Burdsal by the commission:
Question. Have you any other reasons than those you have stated for believing some of the wounded were shot by their comrades
instead of by the Indians? if so, what those reasons were.
Answer. The large majority of those that were wounded with balls were wounded in the upper part of the body; two were wounded in
the calf of the leg, and one in the knee; the cavities were much larger than those shot in the upper part of the body. These are the
grounds of my opinion. My impression is that two of the men were under that impression themselves.
Question. Did any of the command exhibit any other scalps than those you have mentioned at the time or afterwards?
PAGE 204
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That it is examining in relation to new matter,
which is illegal and improper; that if the court will confine its questions to the inquiry in regard to white scalps we have no objection,
but the question in its general form is too hard.
Objection overruled by the commission.)
Answer. I saw scalps in the hands of several after returning from the battle.
Question. Did you ever see an Indian scalp. If so, state what is the difference between it and a white scalp?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That no inquiry has been made in relation to
the difference between white and Indian scalps; that it is new matter; therefore illegal and improper; that the professional opinion of
Dr. Burdsal, as an expert has been asked in regard to wounds, not in regard to scalps.
Objection sustained by the commission.}
Question. What reason have you for saying the scalps you saw in the lodge were those of white persons?
Answer. I judge by the color of the hair.
Question. What was the color of those you saw in the lodge?
Answer. I think there were some white, some sandy brown. I don't think there were any that were very black.
Question. Did not these scalps present the appearance of having faded and changed from their original color by age?
Answer. I think not. My impression is that one or two of them were not more than ten days off of the head.
Question. From what indications do you determine the time not to have been over ten days?
Answer. The skin and flesh attached to the hair appeared to be yet quite moist.
Question. Did you examine these scalps closely?
Answer. Yes; my attention was called to that by others, to decide whether they were fresh or not.
Question. How many wounded were under your charge at Sand creek?
Answer. Thirty-eight. Three of the wounded, after their wounds were dressed, continued with the command down the Arkansas.
Cross-examination of Dr. Caleb Burdsal by the commission closed.
Re-examination: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. tomorrow, May 10, 1865.
SIXTIETH DAY.
MAY 10, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved. Commission adjourned until two o'clock p. m. this day.
Two o'clock, p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission. Adjourned until nine o'clock
a. m to-morrow, May 11, 1865.
SIXTY-FIRST DAY.
MAY 11, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder. Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
B. N. FORBES introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Forbes) testified
as follows:
PAGE 205
Question. What is your name, and have you been a soldier? If yes, state what regiment and company you served in.
Answer. B. N. Forbes; served in company D, first cavalry of Colorado.
Question. Were you with Major Wynkoop, commanding Fort Lyon, when he made an expedition to the Smoky Hill, about September,
1864, and recovered some white prisoners? If yes, state all that occurred, of your own knowledge, on that expedition.
Answer. Yes, I was with that expedition. I think it was about the middle of September, 1864. When we came in sight of the Indians
Major Wynkoop halted our command, and sent the chief we had with us, (One-Eye, I think,) as messenger to the Indians. After he
(the Indian) returned, the major turned off to the left about a mile and encamped for the night; next morning resumed the march. After
travelling four miles, I should judge, we came in sight of the Indians drawn up in line of battle. The major halted the command; there
was a short consultation held between the chief and the major, (it was with Black Kettle I believe,) after which the command went on
and the Indians fell in rear; travelled that way nearly eight miles and camped. Then there was a consultation held between Major
Wynkoop and the Indian chiefs. I do not know what was done in that consultation, I not understanding the Indian language.
Question. How long did you remain in the camp where the consultation was held, and did the Indians come into your camp? State
particularly all that occurred in this camp.
Answer. We remained there, I should judge, about six hours. The Indians came into camp, quite a number of them--probably five
Indians to one white man. They (the Indians) were armed and equipped. They took some of our provisions out of the wagons,
forcibly.
Question. How did the Indians behave toward the troops, as regards peace or war? State particularly.
Answer. They were pretty saucy for friendly Indians. A few that could talk English used pretty hard words. Looking at us, (the troops,)
they would say, "Damn you." They kept the troops guarded. If a man would get up to leave his place, two or three Indians would
follow him. Whether this was done by the Indians so as to have the best of the men, I don't know. They had their bows strung and
their arrows in their hands. They also surrounded the cannon, quite a number of them. Lieutenant Hardin went to Black Kettle and
got him to talk to them, (the Indians;) they dispersed. They then commenced saddling up their ponies and striking off, after setting
fire to the grass to the windward of the camp. We then broke camp and went back about ten or fifteen miles, and camped for the
night.
Question. How was your camp in which these things occurred arranged for defence? Describe it particularly.
Answer. We were camped in an elbow or bend of the creek. The creek encircled us on three sides, about two hundred yards from
the centre of our camp. The camp was arranged very poorly for defence, I think, on account of the creek furnishing a very good
ambuscade for the Indians.
Question. How was the ground on the other side of the creek that encircled your camp? Was it clear, or covered with brush; and how
was it situated to conceal an enemy? Describe it particularly.
Answer. It was covered with a thick undergrowth, the banks being pretty high on both sides, sloping off gradually to the creek. It
would be very favorable for concealment of an enemy.
Question. Were any orders given by Major Wynkoop to keep the Indians out of camp? If yes, were the troops able to enforce these
orders in the position they occupied? State only what you know of your own knowledge.
Answer. I was sergeant of the guard that day, and did not receive any orders
PAGE 206
from any one--Major Wynkoop or the officer of the day--in relation to keeping the Indians out of camp.
Question. What occurred in the camp to which you moved after the consultation, and which you state was ten or fifteen miles distant,
as regards the troops and Major Wynkoop in relation to the orders?
Answer. We remained there for two nights and one day. Some of the Indians that were with us left us in the afternoon of the first day.
It aroused some excitement in the minds of the troops. There was strong talk among the troops of breaking camp, and returning to
Fort Lyon without orders from the officers. They, (the men) sent for Major Wynkoop; they told him that they did not have the
confidence in the Indians that he had. He talked to the men and explained to them what the Indians had promised, and the
excitement died away, and they (the troops) concluded to wait for orders.
Question. Were there any other motives that prompted the men in telling Major Wynkoop that they would go back to Fort Lyon? If yes,
state them particularly.
Answer. There was some talk that there was more whiskey aboard than was really necessary. Some said that they had full
confidence in Major Wynkoop when sober, but that they did not like to trust themselves with him among the Indians when he had
been drinking.
Question. When the Indians fell in rear of you, as you have stated, after Wynkoop's consultation with Black Kettle, how near did the
Indians keep to Major Wynkoop's command, and did the Indians threaten the command? State particularly.
Answer. They kept within one hundred and fifty to two hundred yards of us; they kept up their war song continually. I do not know
whether the Indians threatened the command or not.
Direct examination of B. N. Forbes by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of B. N. Forbes by the commission:
Question. Are you still in the service? If not, when were you discharged, and what is your residence?
Answer. I was discharged the 30th of November, 1864; my residence has been in Denver most of the time since I have been
discharged.
Question. Were any of Major Wynkoop's command killed, fired upon, or assaulted in any manner by the Indians?
Answer. There were none of the command fired upon, none killed, only assaulted by words.
Question. You say you do not understand the Indian language; then how do you know they assaulted with words?
Answer. Some of them spoke a little English, as I told you at the time; some of them used pretty hard words.
Question. Where were the chiefs of the Indians at the time the cannon was surrounded, and where were the officers of Major
Wynkoop's command at that time?
Answer. The chiefs were in their council-lodge, and the officers were mostly there, all but Lieutenant Hardin and Lieutenant Phillips;
I believe Lieutenant Hardin was officer of the day.
Question. How deep was the creek upon which the command camped?
Answer. About belly deep to our horses, where we watered opposite to the camp.
Question. Did any of the Indians conceal themselves in the brush on the creek to attack Major Wynkoop's command?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: The cross-examination of the witness in regard
to the new matter is improper, no question being put on the examination in chief of the conceal-
PAGE 207
ment of Indians anywhere; if the court wants such evidence, they can obtain it legally only by making the witness their own.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. You say the troops while in camp manifested a spirit of mutiny in declaring they would disobey their officers, and return to
Fort Lyon; was it anything more than idle talk? Did any leave the camp? If so, how many and who were they?
Answer. There were none left the camp.
Question. You say the excitement died away after Major Wynkoop left the command; after that, was there any more talk of leaving
camp, and did any one leave?
Answer. There was none left, and there was no talk that amounted to anything after that--only idle talk.
Question. How do you know that it was a war song the Indians kept up as they followed in rear of Major Wynkoop's command?
Answer. It was a song that I heard once before when engaged with the Indians.
Question. Were you present at the council between Major Wynkoop and the Indians?
Answer. No.
Cross-examination of B. N. Forbes, by the commission closed.
Re-examination of B. N. Forbes. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
PRESLEY TALBOT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Talbot)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your name? Were you in the third regiment Colorado cavalry? If yes, what position did you hold? And were you at
the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state what occurred there. State particularly what you know of your own knowledge.
Answer. My name is Presley Talbot. I was in the third regiment Colorado cavalry, and held the position as captain of company M. I
was at the battle of Sand creek; I was ordered to go into the fight by Colonel Chivington; ordered to cross Sand creek to the right side
of the bank. There I received so very galling a fire from the Indians under the bank and from ditches dug out just above the bank that
I ordered my company to advance, to prepare to dismount and fight on foot. At the command to fight on foot I was shot, with a ball
about fifty to the pound, from the rifle of a chief known by the name of One-Eye. When shot--was shot in right side--dragged my right
leg from horse, eased myself as well as I could, and fell; laid on right side; had a soldier to place blankets under right leg so as to
ease pain from wound. Indians, twenty-five or thirty in number, (bucks) made charge, were repulsed, some of my men clubbing their
guns on account of guns refusing to discharge, and forced Indians to seek shelter under the banks, and in holes dug out for
concealment. Firing ceased for not more than five minutes; one Indian, which proved to be Big Head, who as a signal showed
buffalo robe to the height of a person, as the means of drawing the fire from the soldiers, so that they would empty their guns, and
then would give a whoop and rise en masse and fire arrows, shot muskets, and squirrel rifles. I commanded my troops to be
guarded, hold their fire, and be very particular what they fired at, and to be sure it was an Indian. There was a lull in hostilities for a
few minutes. The Indians en masse, at least thirty in number, made a charge, which was repulsed by eight of company M; being
wounded I was then taken from the field to the hospital lodge designated by the commander. I furthermore state that the Indians
were hostile, and
PAGE 208
acted with desperation and bravery; that Colonel John M. Chivington, commanding, acted with discretion and bravery. Furthermore,
that there were at least thirty Indians killed by company M, assisted by two men of the first regiment Colorado cavalry, within
seventy-five feet of where the company fought.
Question. Did you, before or after the battle of Sand creek, have any conversation with Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, Major
Colley, Indian agent, or John Smith, Indian interpreter, in relation to the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state particularly what that
conversation was.
Answer. I had a conversation before the battle of Sand creek, with Major Anthony, in company with Captain Soule, deceased,
Lieutenant Richmond, of the third regiment. He (Anthony) expressed himself gratified that we had come to make an attack on the
Indians; said that he would have attacked them before this time if he had had force enough at his command: Had several
consultations with Major Colley, Indian agent, and John Smith, Indian interpreter; stated that they had considerable sympathy for me,
being wounded; would give me all the attention and assistance in their power, but they would do anything to damn Colonel John M.
Chivington, or Major Downing; that they had lost at least six thousand dollars each by the Sand creek fight; that they had one
hundred and five robes and two white ponies bought at the time of attack, independent of the goods which they had on the
battle-ground, which they never had recovered, but would make the general government pay for the same, and damn old Chivington
eventually. Furthermore, John Smith had a bill made out against the government--showed me the same--for government
indebtedness to him, sworn and subscribed to, by one David Louderback, stating that he would go to Washington city and would
present the same, and that he had friends who would help him get it. Smith and Colley both told me that they were equally
interested in the trade with the Indians.
Question. Did you hear Major Colley, Indian agent, and John Smith, Indian interpreter, say that they would swear to anything to ruin
Colonel Chivington? If so, state particularly what that conversation was.
I object to the question being asked the witness, for the reason that it is leading; has no reference to the matter of this investigation,
and after the witness has given the conversation he had with these parties in reference to Sand creek and the Indians.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado cavalry,
President of Commission.
Objection sustained by the commission.
Question. In the conversation you stated you had with Major Colley and John Smith, in which they stated they would do anything to
damn Colonel Chivington, did they say they would do anything else?
I object to the question, for the reason that it has no reference to the subject-matter of this investigation, and after the witness has
given the conversation of Major Colley and John Smith in reference to Sand creek and the Indians, and whatever threats (if any were
made) these parties may have made against Colonel Chivington or any other person is not a proper subject of this investigation.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
President of Commission.
John M. Chivington would most respectfully explain that Major Colley and John Smith having testified before the "Committee on the
Conduct of the War," and as we are informed the evidence taken by this commission is to be considered by that committee, we
consider it our right by this witness to show what these men, Colley and Smith, have threatened to do, that we may defend our-
PAGE 209
selves against the testimony of these men, and therefore we consider the testimony relevant and proper, and most respectfully
insist that this commission allow the question to be put, and receive the evidence.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
I have no information that the evidence taken by this commission is to go before the "Committee on the Conduct of the War," but, on
the contrary I understand that a committee of the two houses of Congress are now on their way to this Territory to investigate this
affair of Sand creek, to present to the "Committee on the Conduct of the War."
This commission was ordered to investigate all matters relating to the Indians and Sand creek. Private threats and quarrels
growing out of that or any other affair is not, in my opinion, a legitimate and proper matter of record by this commission.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
(Objection sustained by commission.)
Question. State any other conversation that you had with Major Colley and John Smith, if you remember any, pertaining to matters
connected with Sand creek.
Answer. I heard a portion of a letter read in the adjoining room, in which I lay wounded, in which I recognized the voices of Smith,
Colley, and Olmsted, the purport of which was denouncing Colonel Chivington and the Sand creek fight, addressed to the
superintendent of Indian affairs, Washington city. I also heard Smith boastingly in my presence state that the eastern papers would
be filled with letters from that post, (Fort Lyon,) denouncing the same, and that Colonel Chivington had murdered his boy, and that
he would be avenged by using every effort with the department possible. Furthermore he said with tears in his eyes, that he was a
bad boy and deserved punishment, but it was hard for a father to endure it. He furthermore stated that he had tried to influence his
boy to quit committing depredations. I asked him why he could not prevail on him to do so. He said that it was inherited, not from
him, but from the Indian blood. I furthermore asked him why he did not deserve death. He stated that he did deserve death, and
burst into a flood of fears. Colley and Smith stated to me in person that they would go to Washington and represent the Sand creek
battle as nothing more than a massacre; and Smith said that he would realize twenty-five thousand dollars from his losses.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 12, 1865.
SIXTY-SECOND DAY.
MAY 12, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
Question. Have you stated all the conversation you had between Smith and Colley, pertaining to the Sand creek affair?
Answer. I think I have.
John M. Chivington then, after the witness had in answer to the above question stated that he had related all the conversation which
he heard between Colley and Smith in reference to Sand creek, and after he had given the conversation between himself and these
men upon that subject, repeated by asking the question if the witness "had stated all the conversation he had with Colley and Smith
pertaining to Colonel Chivington, as regards the Sand creek affair."
Ex. Doc. 26-----14
PAGE 210
Question ruled out by a majority of commission on the grounds that it was improper, the commission having decided that private
threats and quarrels growing out of that (Sand creek) or any other matter, was not a legitimate and proper matter of record by this
commission, and that it was not proper to cumber the record with improper and irrelevant questions.
Question. You stated near the close of your examination that you wished to make some amendment or explanation. What was that
amendment?
I object to the question, for the reason that the evidence given by the witness has been read to the witness, and he has stated that it
was all correct.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
Commission rooms were cleared for discussion. Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
The objection to the last question of J. M. Chivington sustained by the commission.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
Question. Are you acquainted with David H. Louderback, private first cavalry of Colorado?
I object to the question because it is irrelevant to the subject-matter of this investigation, is leading, can be answered by a yes or no,
and to ascertain the acquaintance of the witness is not the business of this commission.
SAM. F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
J. M. Chivington would most respectfully state, in explanation to the question proposed, that our object in asking it is to lay the
foundation for impeaching Louderback, which we assert we can do; and if the court will grant us what interpretation of the law tells
us is our right, we will do it.
Room cleared for deliberation.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 13, 1865.
SIXTY-THIRD DAY.
MAY 13, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
The room was cleared for discussion. The question under discussion at adjournment yesterday resumed.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The question of John M. Chivington, late colonel, first cavalry of Colorado, was objected to on account of its irrelevancy to the
subject-matter of this investigation, and to prevent the evidence from branching off into a variety of collateral issues perfectly
immaterial to the matter this commission has been ordered to investigate.
After the question was objected to, J. M. Chivington stated the object of the question was, to lay the foundation for impeaching
Louderback. The only way to impeach the credit of a witness by the testimony of others is--
PAGE 211
First. By disproving the facts stated by him, by other testimony.
Second. By general evidence of reputation.
Third. By proof of self-contradiction.
If J. M. Chivington intends to impeach the credit of the said Louderback, by disproving his testimony by other evidence, showing a
different state of facts than those given by Louderback, this can be done, if done at all, without reference to witness's personal
acquaintance with Louderback, or to make any reference to him (Louderback) whatever, which makes the question asked by J. M.
Chivington irrelevant and consequently improper.
If by general evidence of reputation, the examination in chief must be confined to the general reputation of Louderback; to adduce
evidence as to that, not to particular facts, and not the witness's personal acquaintance with the said Louderback, but to his
knowledge of the reputation only of the said Louderback: for these reasons the question as to the witness's personal acquaintance
is immaterial, and for that reason improper.
If by proving self-contradiction--that the witness had made verbal statements outside differing from what he has testified to before
this commission, J. M. Chivington having failed to prepare the way for its admission by cross-examining the witness (Louderback)
as to the supposed contradictory statements, and giving him an opportunity of denying or explaining such statements, &c., it is now
too late, and inadmissible as evidence. For these reasons the objection is sustained by the commission.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m., Monday, May 15, 1865.
SIXTY-FOURTH DAY.
MAY 15, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to absence of witness the commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Owing to absence of witness the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 16, 1865.
SIXTY-FIFTH DAY.
MAY 16, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to the illness of Presley Talbot, a witness introduced by J. M. Chivington, his further examination is postponed.
HARRY RICHMOND introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Richmond)
testified as follows:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your name? Have you been in the army? If so, state in what corps, and what position you occupied.
Answer. Name, Harry Richmond; position, second lieutenant company B, third Colorado cavalry.
Question. Were you on the expedition: against the Indians, under command of Colonel John M. Chivington, which resulted in the
battle of Sand creek near Fort Lyon?
Answer. I was.
Question. Did you at any time before or after the battle of Sand creek have any conversation with Major Anthony, first cavalry of
Colorado, commanding
PAGE 212
Fort Lyon, in relation to the battle of Sand creek and the Indians? If yes, state the conversation particularly.
Answer. I met Major Anthony as the command was between Fort Lyon and the commissary building. On shaking hands with me,
and in reply to "Where are the Indians?" asked by me he said, "I am damned glad you have come; I have got them over here about
twenty-five miles until I could send to Denver for assistance." This was before the battle of Sand creek. At another time he asserted
that he should have attacked them himself if he had had sufficient force. That is about all the remarks I heard him make concerning
the battle or the Indians that I remember of. I never heard Anthony express himself except exulting over the battle of Sand creek or
the arrival of troops to give battle.
Direct examination of Harry Richmond by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Harry Richmond by the commission:
Question. Did Major Anthony, in his conversation with you, refer to the Indians on the Smoky Hill, or on Sand creek?
Answer. Without specially referring to either, I thought he meant both. The indication of his finger was the same direction as that we
marched to go for the Sand creek Indians.
Question. In what direction did you march, to reach the Indians on Sand creek, from Fort Lyon?
Answer. I could not answer that question as regards the points of the compass. I should judge we marched in a line directly from
the Arkansas river, our road forming a right angle with the river. It was dark when we left Fort Lyon.
Question. Where is your present residence?
Answer. Denver, Colorado Territory. Post office address box 93.
Cross examination of Harry Richmond by the commission closed.
Re-examination: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
SIMEON WHITELEY introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Whiteley)
testified as follows:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your name, residence, and do you hold any official position under the government of the United States? If yes,
state what that official position is.
Answer. Simeon Whiteley; residence in this city. I at present hold the office of United States Indian agent of the Grand River and
Uintah band of Utah Indians.
Question. Were you at a council held at Camp Weld, near Denver, Colorado Territory, in September, 1864, between Governor Evans
and chiefs of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe nations, and can you state what occurred there? If yes, please state it particularly, and
who was present.
Answer. I was present at the council and acted as clerk at the time. I made a verbatim report of the proceedings there had, which I
can give to this commission if desired. In this report referred to, I have the names of the prominent individuals present.
Question. Please state the report verbatim, and under what circumstances, and in what manner you took that report?
Answer. Governor Evans has been in the habit of having me make copies of
PAGE 213
the proceedings of all councils, when my other duties would permit. I made this report of the proceedings of the council at Camp
Weld at his request. He (the governor) warned me before I commenced that upon the result of this council very likely depended a
continuance of the Indian war on the plains, and it was important that the minutes should be full and complete. I frequently, while
taking these notes, had to stop the interpreter as well as the governor, so that I could get every word down. I think I was successful
in doing it.
The following is the report:
CAMP WELD, DENVER,
Wednesday, September 28, 1864.
Present--Governor John Evans; Colonel Chivington, commanding district of Colorado; Colonel George L. Shoup, third Colorado
volunteer cavalry; Major E. Wynkoop, Colorado first; S. Whiteley, United States Indian agent; Black Kettle, leading Cheyenne chief;
White Antelope, chief central Cheyenne band; Bull Bear, leader of Dog-soldiers (Cheyenne;) Neva, sub Arapahoe chief, who was in
Washington; Bosse, sub Arapahoe chief; Heaps-of-Buffalo, Arapahoe chief; No-ta-nee, Arapahoe chief; the Arapahoes are all
relatives of Left Hand, chief of the Arapahoes, and are sent by him in his stead; John Smith, interpreter to Upper Arkansas agency;
and many other citizens and officers.
His excellency Governor Evans asked the Indians what they had to say.
BLACK KETTLE then said: On sight of your circular of June 27, 1864, I took hold of the matter, and have now come to talk to you
about it. I told Mr. Bent, who brought it, that I accepted it, but that it would take some time to get all my people together, many of my
young men being absent; and I have done everything in my power since then to keep peace with the whites. As soon as I could get
my people all together we held a council and got a half-breed who was with us to write a letter to inform Major Wynkoop, or other
military officer nearest us, of our intention to comply with the terms of the circular. Major Wynkoop was kind enough to receive the
letter, and visited us in camp, to whom we delivered four white prisoners--one other, Mrs. Snyder, having killed herself. There are
two women and one child yet in our camp, whom we will deliver up as soon as we can get them in. These are their names: Laura
Roper, aged sixteen or seventeen years; Ambrose Asher, aged seven or eight years; Daniel Marble, aged seven or eight years;
Isabel Ubanks, aged four or five years. The prisoners still with us, are Mrs. Ubanks and babe; and a Mrs. Morton, who was taken on
the Platte. Mrs. Snyder is the name of the woman who hung herself. The boys were taken between Fort Kearney and the Blue. I
followed Major Wynkoop to Fort Lyon, and Major Wynkoop proposed that we come up to see you. We have come with our eyes shut,
following his handful of men, like coming through the fire. All we ask is that we may have peace with the whites; we want to hold you
by the hand. You are our father; we have been travelling through a cloud; the sky has been dark ever since the war began. These
braves who are with me are all willing to do what I say. We want to take good tidings home to our people, that they may sleep in
peace. I want you to give all the chiefs of the soldiers here to understand that we are for peace, and that we have made peace, that
we may not be mistaken by them for enemies. I have not come here with a little wolf's bark, but have come to talk plain with you. We
must live near the buffalo or starve. When we came here we came free, without any apprehension, to see you, and when I go home
and tell my people that I have taken your hand and the hands of all the chiefs here in Denver, they will feel well, and so will all the
different tribes of Indians on the plains, after we have eaten and drunk with them.
Governor EVANS replied: I am sorry you did not respond to my appeal at once; you have gone into an alliance with the Sioux, who
were at war with
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us; you have done a great deal of damage, have stolen stock, and now have possession of it. However much a few individuals may
have tried to keep the peace, as a nation you have gone to war; while we have been spending thousands of dollars in opening
farms for you, and making preparations to feed, protect and make you comfortable, you have joined our enemies and gone to war.
Hearing last fall that you were dissatisfied, the Great Father at Washington sent me out on the plains to talk with you and make it all
right. I sent messengers out to tell you that I had presents and would make you a feast; but you sent word to me that you did not
want anything to do with me, and to the Great Father at Washington that you could get along without him. Bull Bear wanted to come
in to see me at the head of the Republican, but his people held a council and would not let him come.
BLACK KETTLE. That is true.
Governor EVANS. (resuming.) I was under the necessity, after all the trouble and expense I was at, of returning home without seeing
them. Instead of this, your people went away and smoked the "war pipe" with our enemies.
BLACK KETTLE. I don't know who could have told you this.
Governor EVANS. No matter who said this, but your conduct has proved to my satisfaction that such was the case.
SEVERAL INDIANS. This is a mistake; we have made no alliance with the Sioux or any one else.
Governor EVANS explained that smoking the "war pipe" was a figurative term, but their conduct had been such as to show they had
an understanding with other tribes.
SEVERAL INDIANS. We acknowledge that our actions have given you reason to believe this.
Governor EVANS. So far as making a treaty now is concerned, we are in no condition to do it; your young men are on the war path,
my soldiers are preparing for the fight. You so far have had the advantage, but the time is near at hand when the plains will swarm
with United States soldiers. I understand that these men who have come to see me now have been opposed to the war all the time,
but that their people have controlled them, and they could not help themselves. Is this so?
ALL THE INDIANS. It has been so.
Governor EVANS. The fact that they have not been able to prevent their people from going to war in the past spring, when there was
plenty of grass and game, makes me believe that they will not be able to make a peace which will last longer than until winter is
past.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I will answer that, after a time.
Governor EVANS. The time when you can make war best is in the summer time; the time when I can make war best is in the winter.
You so far have had the advantage; my time is fast coming. I have learned that you understand that as the whites are at war among
themselves, you think you can now drive the whites from this country, but this reliance is false. The Great Father at Washington has
men enough to drive all the Indians off the plains, and whip the rebels at the same time. Now, the war with the whites is nearly
through, and the Great Father will not know what to do with all his soldiers, except to send them after the Indians on the plains. My
proposition to the friendly Indians has gone out. I shall be glad to have them all come in under it. I have no new proposition to make.
Another reason that I am not in condition to make a treaty is, that war is begun, and the power to make a treaty of peace has passed
from me to the great war chief. My advice to you is to turn on the side of the government, and show by your acts that friendly
disposition you profess to me. It is utterly out of the question for you to be at peace with us while living with our enemies and being
on friendly terms with them.
PAGE 215
Inquiry was made by one Indian, what was meant by being on the side of the government. Explanation being made, all gave assent,
saying, "All right."
Governor EVANS. The only way you can show this friendship is by making some arrangement with the soldiers to help them.
BLACK KETTLE. We will return with Major Wynkoop to Fort Lyon; we will then proceed to our village and take back to my young men
every word you say. I cannot answer for all of them, but think there will be but little difficulty in getting them to assent to help the
soldiers.
Major WYNKOOP to Black Kettle. Did not the Dog soldiers agree, when I had my council with you, to do whatever you said, after you
had been here?
BLACK KETTLE. Yes.
Governor EVANS explained that if the Indians did not keep with the United States soldiers, or have an arrangement with them, they
would be all treated as enemies. You understand, if you are at peace with us, it is necessary to keep away from our enemies; but I
hand you over to the military, one of the chief of whom is here to-day, and can speak for himself if he chooses.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I understand every word you have said, and will hold on to it. I will give you an answer directly. The Cheyennes,
all of them, have their ears open this way, and they will hear what you say. I am proud to have seen the chief of all the whites in this
country. I will tell my people. Ever since I went to Washington and received this medal, I have called all white men as my brothers,
but other Indians have since been to Washington and got medals, and now the soldiers do not shake hands, but seek to kill me.
What do you mean by us fighting your enemies? Who are they?
Governor EVANS. All Indians who are fighting us.
WHITE ANTELOPE. How can we be protected from the soldiers on the plains?
Governor EVANS. You must make that arrangement, with the military chief.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I fear these new soldiers who have gone out may kill some of my people while I am here.
Governor EVANS. There is great danger of it.
WHITE ANTELOPE. When we sent our letter to Major Wynkoop, it was like going through a strong fire, or blast, for Major Wynkoop's
men to come to our camp; it was the same for us to come to see you. We have our doubts whether the Indians south of the
Arkansas, or those north of the Platte, will do as you say. A large number of Sioux have crossed the Platte in the vicinity of the
Junction, into our country. When Major Wynkoop came, we proposed to make peace. He said he had no power to make peace,
except to bring us here and return us safe.
Governor EVANS, again. Whatever peace you make must be with the soldiers, and not with me. Are the Apaches at war with the
whites?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Yes; and the Comanches and Kiowas, as well; also a tribe of Indians from Texas whose name we do not know.
There are thirteen different bands of Sioux who have crossed the Platte, and are in alliance with the others named.
Governor EVANS. How many warriors with the Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches?
WHITE ANTELOPE. A good many; don't know.
Governor EVANS: How many of the Sioux?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Don't know, but many more than the southern tribes.
Governor EVANS. Who committed the depredations on the trains near the Junction, about the first of August?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Do not know; did not know any was committed; have taken you by the hand, and will tell the truth, keeping back
nothing.
Governor EVANS. Who committed the murder of the Hungate family, on Burning creek?
PAGE 216
NEVA. The Arapahoes, a party of the northern band who were passing north; it was Medicine Man, or Roman Nose, and three others.
Agent WHITELEY. That cannot be true; I am satisfied, from the time he left a certain camp for the north, that it was not this party of
four persons.
Governor EVANS. Where is Roman Nose now?
NEVA. You ought to know better than me; you have been nearer to him;.
Governor EVANS. Who killed a man and boy at the head of Cherry creek, four weeks ago?
NEVA. (after-consultation,) Kiowas and Comanches.
Governor EVANS. Who stole soldiers' horses and mules from Jimmie's camp, twenty-seven days ago?
NEVA. Fourteen Cheyennes and Arapahoes together.
Governor EVANS. What were their names?
NEVA. Powder-face and Whirlwind, who are now in our camp, were the leaders.
Colonel SHOUP. I counted twenty Indians on that occasion.
Governor EVANS. Who stole Charley Antobe's horses?
NEVA. Raven's son.
Governor EVANS. Who took the stock from Frémont's Orchard, and had the first battle with the soldiers this spring, north of there?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Before answering this question, I would like for you to know that this was the beginning of the war, and I should
like to know what it was for--a soldier fired first.
Governor EVANS. The Indians had stolen about forty horses; the soldiers went to recover them, and the Indians fired a volley into
their ranks.
WHITE ANTELOPE. This is all a mistake; they were coming down the Bijou, and found one horse and one mule. They returned one
horse, before they got to Geary's, to a man; then went to Geary's, expecting to turn the other one over to some one. They then heard
that the soldiers and the Indians were fighting somewhere down the Platte; they then took a fright, and all fled.
Governor EVANS. Who were the Indians who had the fight?
WHITE ANTELOPE. They were headed by Fool Badger's son; a young man, one of the greatest of the Cheyenne warriors, who was
wounded, and, though still alive, he will never recover.
NEVA. I want to say something. It makes me feed bad to be talking about these things, and opening old sores.
Governor EVANS. Let him speak.
NEVA. Mr. Smith has known me ever since I was a child; has he ever known me commit depredations on the whites? I went to
Washington last year, receiving good counsel; I hold on to it. I am determined always to keep peace with the whites. Now, when I
shake hands with them they seem to pull away. I came here to seek peace, and nothing else.
Governor EVANS. We feel that you have, by your stealing and murdering, done us great damage. You come here and say you will tell
us all, and that is what I am trying to get.
NEVA. The Comanches, Kiowas, and Sioux have done much more injury than we have. We will tell you what we know, but cannot
answer for others.
Governor EVANS. I suppose you acknowledge the depredations on the Little Blue, as you have the prisoners there taken in your
possession?
WHITE ANTELOPE. We (the Cheyennes) took two prisoners west of Fort Kearney, and destroyed the trains.
Governor EVANS. Who committed depredations at Cottonwood?
WHITE ANTELOPE. The Sioux; what band I do not know.
Governor EVANS. What are the Sioux going to do next?
BULL BEAR. Their intention is to clear out all this country. They are angry, and will do all the damage to the whites they can. I am
with you and the
PAGE 217
troops to fight all those who have no ears to listen to what you say. Who are they? Show them to me--I am young. I have never
harmed a white man. I am pushing for something good. I am always going to be friendly with the whites; they can do me good.
Governor EVANS. Where are those Sioux?
BULL BEAR. Down on the Republican, where it opens out.
Governor EVANS. Do you know that they intend to attack the trains this week?
BULL BEAR. Yes; about one-half of all the Missouri river Sioux and Yanktons who were driven from Minnesota are those who have
crossed the Platte. I am young, and can fight. I have given my word to fight with the whites. My brother, Lean Bear, died in trying to
keep peace with the whites. I am willing to die in the same way, and expect to do so.
NEVA. I know the value of the presents which we receive from Washington; we cannot live without them. That is why I try so hard to
keep peace with the whites.
Governor EVANS. I cannot say anything about these things now.
NEVA. I can speak for all the Arapahoes under Left Hand. Raven has sent no one here to speak for him. Raven has fought whites.
Governor EVANS. Are there any whites among your people?
NEVA. There are none except Keith, who is now in the store at Fort Larned.
Colonel CHIVINGTON. I am not a big war chief, but all the soldiers in this country are at my command. My rule of fighting white men
or Indians is, to fight them until they lay down their arms and submit to military authority. You are nearer Major Wynkoop than any one
else, and you can go to him when you get ready to do that.
The council then adjourned.
Direct examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by J. M. Chivington, closed.
Cross-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by the commission:
Question. You say that explanations were made as to what it was to be, on the side of the government, to which the Indians gave
assent; state particularly what that explanation was.
Answer. I don't recollect the exact language that was used. If I should attempt to give the explanation, it would, probably, be mostly
according to my own ideas, and not what was really said, or the words used. It is my recollection of what was said, that they must
obey the requirements of the military officers, to render them such assistance as they could, by giving information, acting as scouts,
&c. I don't know that any of those particular terms were used, but this is the general idea of the explanation.
Question. Was the assent of the Indians an expression of their willingness to comply with the terms proposed?
Answer. Yes.
Question. What reply did the Indians make to the remark of Colonel Shoup, that he counted twenty Indians in the attack on Jimmie's
camp?
Answer. None.
Question. What reply did the Indians make to your remark in council, that they were mistaken as to who killed the Hunsgate family?
Answer. None whatever. I don't know whether they heard my remark. I do not recollect whether it was interpreted to them. I
addressed it more particularly to Governor Evans. I knew it was a lie.
Question. State how you know it was a lie.
Answer. From my knowledge of the time when Medicine Man was in this
PAGE 218
part of the country, I know that he had not been in this section of the country since the preceding September.
Question. State particularly your knowledge of Medicine Man and Roman Nose, where they were at the time the Hunsgate family
were killed.
Answer. About that time I received word from the camp of the northern band of Arapahoes that Roman Nose was dead.
Subsequently I received word that Medicine Man was fighting the Snakes in Montana Territory, and was off on the war path, beyond
Powder river, about the time of the murder of the Hunsgate family. After the council adjourned I told what I knew of Medicine Man's
locality to Governor Evans and Colonel Chivington.
Question. Have you stated your only means of knowing that Medicine Man was absent and Roman Nose dead?
Answer. I can explain that in saying that I have, in addition to other duties, had charge of a portion of this northern band of
Arapahoes; that I have sent and received messages from Medicine Man at various times since the 1st of July last. He is now
reported to me as being near the Medicine Bow mountains. I have talked with a good many Indians of his band. Two weeks ago
yesterday I had a council with Black Bear, one of his leading chiefs, who has just come in from the northern country, and I have not a
shadow of doubt of the falsity of Neva's statement.
Cross-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by the commission, closed.
Re-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by J. M. Chivington:
Question. Who gave the Indians the explanations you have stated were given in regard to their being on the side of the government?
Answer. Governor Evans.
Re-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, closed.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 17, 1865.
SIXTY-SIXTH DAY.
MAY 17, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
On account of the non-appearance of the witnesses, the commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to the non-appearance of witnesses, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 18, 1865.
SIXTY-SEVENTH DAY.
MAY 18, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
No question asked.
Cross-examination of Presley Talbot by the commission:
Question. Where is your residence?
Answer. Denver City, Colorado Territory.
Cross examination of Presley Talbot by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Presley Talbot:
No questions asked.
PAGE 219
To the president and members of the military commission convened at Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of Special Orders
No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado, &c.:
We would most respectfully request your honorable court to allow us to introduce Major Simeon Whiteley on new matter, to wit, to
prove a conversation that he (Whiteley) had with Major Anthony, formerly first cavalry of Colorado, and commanding Fort Lyon,
Colorado Territory, November 28, 1864, in relation to the hostility of the Indians killed at Sand creek. We wish to prove by Major
Whiteley that Anthony stated to Whiteley that the Indians at Sand creek killed by Chivington were hostile; that he had fired on them
repeatedly before the "battle of Sand creek;" that he entertained serious apprehensions for the safety of Fort Lyon on account of
these Indians; and that he represented these facts to Colonel Chivington and urged him to attack and kill the Indians.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
MAY 18, 1865.
This commission, in its investigation of the affairs of Sand creek, in order to ascertain all the facts and the exact relations existing
between the Indians and the military authorities, have allowed evidence to be introduced as to statements made by Major Anthony
while in command at Fort Lyon and in the public service as an officer. Therefore, in the opinion of this commission, evidence as to
what Major Anthony may have said since leaving the public service and the country, in reference to the Indians and Sand creek, (and
since this commission and a committee of Congress have been ordered to investigate the affair of Sand creek,) is merely
accumulative, irrelevant, and improper; and for these reasons the request of J. M. Chivington cannot be complied with.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
On account of the non-appearance of witnesses, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 19, 1865.
SIXTY-EIGHTH DAY.
MAY 19, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
ALEXANDER F. SAFELY introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Safely)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your name, and have you been a soldier? If yes, state how long, to what corps did you belong, and what position
did you occupy in the army.
Answer. Alexander F. Safely; I have been a soldier three years and a half; belonged to first cavalry of Colorado; I was a private.
Question. Were you on the expedition made by Colonel Chivington and command, which resulted in the battle of Sand creek last
November? If yes, what duty were you on during that expedition?
Answer. I was on the expedition with Colonel Chivington and command, which resulted in the battle of Sand creek, and acted as a
scout during that campaign.
Question. Were you with Colonel Chivington on the 28th of November last, when he entered Fort Lyon? If yes, please state
particularly who Colonel Chivington spoke with on the road into Fort Lyon from your camp, and how long Colonel Chivington halted
at any time before he reached Fort Lyon.
PAGE 220
Answer. I was with Colonel Chivington on the 28th of November last, and rode into Fort Lyon with him; he did not stop to talk with
anyone on the road, that I saw. He met Captain Soule's command about eight miles from Fort Lyon, and he spoke to the boys as he
was riding by, saying, "How are you boys?" That is the only time I heard him speak to anybody, unless those that were riding along
with him.
Question. Did you see Captain Soule when he spoke to the boys; and did Colonel Chivington halt when he spoke to the boys?
Answer. Colonel Chivington did not halt; Captain Soule's command were watering their horses at the time Colonel Chivington rode
by; he (Chivington) merely said "How are you, boys?"
Question. Did you hear any conversation between Colonel Chivington and Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, in regard to
Indians, either before or after the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state what that conversation was particularly.
Answer. I did hear a conversation between Colonel Chivington and Major Anthony, both before and after the battle of Sand creek;
and it was in regard to Indians. Major Anthony stated to Colonel Chivington, in my presence, that when he took command of Fort
Lyon, or shortly after that, he made a demand on the Indians to give up all their arms; he (Anthony) said that the Indians agreed to do
so, and that instead of turning in arms that were of any use to the Indians, they turned in some boys' bows, and some
double-barrelled shot-guns, and one Hawkins's rifle, which had no lock on it. He said that he considered that they were sincere [sic]
about it, and gave them back their arms, and ordered them out of the post; that if they came back again he would open his artillery
upon them. He said that they removed from there, and were then somewhere on Sand creek. He said that he was glad that we had
come down there, as the Indians had sent him word that if he wanted to fight he could get as big a one as he wanted by coming out
there to Sand creek. Indeed (he said) he was becoming alarmed that they would come in to the post and give him a fight. He said
that he and every man he commanded would go with Colonel Chivington's command. That is about all I can think of that he said
before the battle. The day after the battle I heard Major Anthony say that this would put a stop to the Indian war; that he considered
that it was the biggest Indian fight that ever was recorded. I heard him ask Colonel Chivington's permission to proceed to Fort Lyon
with the dead and wounded, and that he would overtake the command with the balance of the troops that had arrived there since we
left. That is about all.
Question. Did you witness the commencement of the battle of Sand creek? If yes, please describe it particularly; who fired the first
shot and how it commenced.
Answer. I witnessed the commencement of the battle of Sand creek, being the first man on the ground. Lieutenant Wilson brought
his battalion on the left of the village, while company H, of the first cavalry of Colorado, came up in line directly in front on the right of
the village, where I then was. While Lieutenant Wilson was coming up, I saw a man's horse running away with him, which I
afterwards learned was George Pierce, of F company. (His horse carried him through the lower end of the village, and suddenly I
saw him and his horse fall together. Shortly afterwards I saw him (Pierce) get up on his feet and run a short distance, stopped and
turned around, when I saw the smoke rise from an Indian gun, and also saw George Pierce drop. At that time Wilson's battalion
commenced firing, and at the same time company H, of the first, commenced firing. Before company H had taken their position,
there were three Indians who had left the village and advanced to meet us. There was a company of the third regiment directly
behind company H, and these three Indians, who were firing bows and arrows, shot over company H and
PAGE 221
took effect in the company of the third, directly behind company H. One of the Indians was killed right there. The next Indian that
came out off the village from the side we were on was White Antelope. He came running directly towards company H; he had a
pistol in his left hand, and a bow with some arrows in his right. He got within about fifty yards of the company; he commenced
shooting his pistol, still in his left hand. There were a good many shots fired at him from off the horses, but the horses were
jumping around so, that the men could hardly manage them, there being a company in rear firing. One of the men, who was
considerably excited, asked "if no one could hit that Indian?" I told him if he would hold my horse, I would try and see if I could not get
him. He did so; I got off and fired at the Indian, the ball taking effect in the groin. He turned then and ran back towards the village, and
Billy Henderson, of H company, shot the Indian through the head when he was about the middle of the creek. That was the
commencement of the fight, as near as I can recollect.
Question. Did you at any time see any white flag in the village of the Indians, or held by any of the Indians near the village?
Answer. I did not.
Question. Was your position such that you would have seen a white flag, if any had been exhibited by the Indians?--you have stated
that you was the first man on the ground.
Answer. It was.
Question. Did you hear, at any time, a conversation between Major Colley, Indian agent, and Colonel Chivington in regard to the
Indians?
Answer. Before the battle I did not know Major Colley by sight, and cannot think of anything he said and be positive about it.
Direct examination of Alexander F. Safely by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Alexander F. Safely by the commission:
Question. When Major Anthony referred to certain Indians as sending him word "to come out and fight, or they would attack him in
the post," did he refer to the Sioux on the Smoky Hill, or the Cheyennes on Sand creek?
Answer. He referred to the Cheyennes and Arapahoes on Sand creek.
Question. Did you hear Colonel Chivington tell Major Anthony that the hostile Indians had moved south from the Platte and were to
attack Fort Lyon?
Answer. No.
Question. What are your means of knowledge that Major Anthony referred to the Cheyennes and Arapahoes instead of the Sioux?
Answer. Because I heard him say, in the course of the conversation, they were Cheyennes and Arapahoes.
Question. In the conversation between Major Anthony and Colonel Chivington, what did Colonel Chivington say in reference to the
Indians?
Answer. He did not have much to say about it. He said that he would start for them that night and march all night. Major Anthony did
pretty much all the talking.
Question. What portion of Colonel Chivington's command was the first to reach the Indian camp on Sand creek?
Answer. Lieutenant Wilson's battalion on the left, and company H of the first regiment came up on the right of the village. About the
same time a company of the third regiment came up in rear of company H--immediately afterwards.
Question. How long after you saw the horse running toward the Indian village did Lieutenant Wilson's command reach his position
to the right of the village?
Answer. He reached his position at the end of the village about the time
PAGE 222
Pierce was shot. It was about a moment difference of time from the time Pierce was shot to the time Lieutenant Wilson opened fire.
Question. From what portion of the column did this horse start?
Answer. I could not say; when I saw him he was at full speed and ahead of the column.
Question. You say that White Antelope came out of the Indian village and attacked company H. How do you know it was White
Antelope?
Answer. Because I have seen him before. I know him by sight.
Question. How far from the Indian village was company H when you fired at White Antelope?
Answer. About one hundred yards.
Question. Was White Antelope between company H and the village, and was he alone?
Answer. He was between company H and the village, and he was alone.
Question. You say your position was such as to enable you to see all that transpired in the Indian village. How large a tract of ground
did the village cover?
Answer. I do not know exactly. It was about a quarter of a mile long, I should judge.
Cross-examination of Alexander F. Safely by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Alexander F. Safely. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
The witnesses summoned not having arrived, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 20, 1865.
SIXTY-NINTH DAY.
MAY 20, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read, amended as follows, and approved:
On page 816, answer to first question, insert "I saw Captain Soule at the time."
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 9 a. m. Monday, May 22, 1865.
SEVENTIETH DAY.
MAY 22, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
The witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 23, 1865.
SEVENTY-FIRST DAY.
MAY 23, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
PAGE 223
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
T. P. BELL introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence.
The oath being administered according to law, he (Bell) testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name, where do you reside, and were you at the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864.
Answer. Thaddeus P. Bell; reside in Lake Gulch, Gilpin county, Colorado Territory; post office address, Central City, Colorado
Territory. I was at the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864.
Question. Did you see any white scalps in the Indian village at Sand creek? If yes, please describe them particularly.
Answer. I saw a good many white scalps there. The number, I have not any idea how many. There were some that looked old, as if
they might have been taken a considerable time; others not so long, and one that was quite fresh, not over from five to eight days old
at furthest. I did not notice them particularly enough at the time to give a more minute description. The fresh scalp was from a red
haired man.
Direct examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by commission:
Question. Was there a soldier of Colonel Chivington's command killed and scalped by the Indians at the commencement of the
fight at Sand creek?
Answer. I cannot say whether he was scalped or not, but there was one killed. The first man I saw killed was one of Colonel
Chivington's command. There was one man scalped, but that was later in the day.
Question. Was not the fresh scalp you saw taken on the day of the fight by the Indians?
Answer. It was not.
Question. State how you know it was not.
Answer. I saw the scalp before the fight had been going on any length of time; before there had been any wounded or dead brought
in off the field, and at a place where there had been none either wounded or killed on either side; and further, by the appearance of
the scalp itself. It was lying in or near the door of one of the Indian lodges; it looked like it might have been recently dropped there.
Question. What was done with this scalp?
Answer. I do not know what was done with it.
Question. Have you seen any of the scalps you saw at Sand creek since?
Answer. I have not seen any of the white scalps except one; I saw one since.
Question. Where did you see it, and in whose possession was it?
Answer. I saw it between where we leave the Arkansas river and cross to the Fountain-qui-bouit. It was in possession of a man
whose name I believe is Rhoades, one of the third regiment.
Question. How long after the fight commenced did you see these scalps you speak of?
Answer. I suppose the fight had been going on probably an hour; it might have been more or it might have been less.
Question. State particularly from what you determine the age of a scalp.
Answer. If the scalp had been taken that day the capillary vessels would have yet been bleeding, which they were not, but the scalp
was yet soft and green.
Cross-examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Dr. Thaddeus P. Bell. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 24, 1865.
PAGE 224
SEVENTY-SECOND DAY.
MAY 24, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
JAY J. JOHNSON introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Johnson)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name; have you been in the United States military service? If yes, state how long, and what position you
occupied. Where do you now reside?
Answer. Jay J. Johnson; I have been in the United States military service from the 10th of September, 1861, to the 28th day of
December, 1864; I was an enlisted man up to the 16th of August, 1864; I acted as adjutant third Colorado cavalry from that time to
the 28th of September, 1864, I think, when I was mustered in as captain of company E of same regiment, and served as captain
until mustered out.
Question. Was you with Colonel Chivington's command when he (Chivington) made an expedition against the Indians, which
resulted in the battle of Sand creek November 29, 1864? If yes, what position did you occupy, and what duty was assigned for your
performance before and after the battle?
Answer. I was with the command from the time that Colonel Chivington came up to Boonville until it returned to Denver, and acted
as provost marshal of the expedition during that time. I reside in Central City, Gilpin county, Colorado Territory.
Question. What orders did you receive as provost marshal, in relation to captured property, from Colonel Chivington, commanding?
Please state particularly.
Answer. My orders from Colonel Chivington, at the time I received the appointment, were to take charge of all captured property, and
see that it was turned over to the quartermaster.
Question. Did you receive any other orders from Colonel Chivington in regard to captured property, at any other time? State
particularly the orders, times, and places.
Answer. I did receive other orders the night before Colonel Chivington left the command on the Arkansas. He then ordered me,
"when I got to Fort Lyon, to take my company and take charge of the stock captured from Indians there, and drive it to Denver and
turn it in to the assistant quartermaster."
Direct examination of Jay J. Johnson, late captain third Colorado cavalry, by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Jay J. Johnson late captain, &c., by the commission:
Question. Did you obey the order of Colonel Chivington by turning over the captured property to the quartermaster?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question relates to new matter, and
that it is therefore irregular and improper. We have examined the witness only in relation to what orders Colonel Chivington gave
him--not what he did in the performance of his duty as provost marshal. We simply have asked what he was told to do by Colonel
Chivington when acting officially. That it is not competent for the court to ask the witness questions which will criminate him if
answered in the affirmative, and if answered in the negative will relate to new matter not called out by the defendant, Chivington, in
the examination in chief of the witness.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you ever report to Colonel Chivington how you had executed his order in reference to the captured stock?
PAGE 225
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the same reasons expressed in the last objection filed by him.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you receive a verbal or written order from Colonel Chivington in reference to the captured stock?
Answer. The first order I refer to was a verbal order. I was regularly detailed as provost marshal from district headquarters, in the
field; but my instructions at that time were verbal. My instructions from Colonel Chivington the night before he left the command on
the Arkansas were verbal; but just before I got into the post of Fort Lyon I received the same instructions, written, from the Adjutant
General.
Question. Were those instructions in writing, in reference to the taking and disposition you should make of the captured stock?
Answer. The instructions in writing were the same as the verbal instructions from Colonel Chivington.
Cross-examination of Jay J. Johnson by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Jay J. Johnson, late captain, &c.:
No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
W. H. VALENTINE introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Valentine)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name? Where do you reside? Have you been a soldier? If yes, how long; in what corps did you serve;
what position did you occupy in the military service of the United States, and where have you been stationed?
Answer. William H. Valentine; reside in Denver at present. I have been a soldier two years and six months; served in the first cavalry
of Colorado; position, veterinary surgeon; have been stationed at Fort Lyon, on the Arkansas.
Question. Were you at Fort Lyon on or about October last, when Major Wynkoop returned from Denver with the Indians Black Kettle,
&c.? If yes, did you have any conversation with any of them or hear any of them talk after Major Wynkoop returned from Denver?
Please state such conversation, if you had any.
Answer. I was at Fort Lyon when Major Wynkoop returned from Denver with Black Kettle and other Indians. All the conversation I had
at that time was with Left Hand. He was the only one I could talk with. I pointed out two or three Indians that stood on the
parade-ground, and asked him if those were the ones that killed the soldier and blacksmith beyond Spring Bottom. He said, "they
are the Indians."
Question. Did you ever hear the Indians that you pointed out to Left Hand say anything about the killing of the blacksmith and
soldiers? State particularly.
Answer. I never heard those Indians say anything about it in language that I could understand. They told me in signs and motions. I
made a motion to them if they were the Indians that killed the soldiers and the blacksmith; they gave me to understand, by motions,
that they were.
Question. Did the Indians have government stock in their possession at this time? State particularly.
Answer. They had eight head of mules; the soldiers that were killed had them formerly--four in a wagon and four in an ambulance.
Question. How did you know that they belonged to the government; who
Ex. Doc. 26-----15
PAGE 226
was in command of the post at this time, and did the commanding officer of the post at this time attempt to take, or did he at any
time take these mules from the Indians?
Answer. I know four of the mules were sent from the quartermaster's corral to Denver with an officer; I forget who it was. Major
Wynkoop was in command of the post at this time. I don't think he did take or attempt to take these mules himself from the Indians.
Question. Who succeeded Major Wynkoop in command of Fort Lyon, and how did the guard, while he was in command of Fort Lyon,
treat the Indians? State what you saw.
Answer. Major Anthony succeeded Major Wynkoop in command of Fort Lyon. While Major Anthony was in command I saw one of the
guard fire on the Indians.
Question. What were the Indians trying to do when the guard fired on them; and what reason did the guard give for firing on them?
Answer. They were trying to come into the post. The guard gave as their reason for firing on them that they were ordered to do so by
Major Anthony.
Question. Where was Major Anthony when the guard fired upon the Indians, as you have stated?
Answer. I think that he was in front of his own office, or near there.
Question. What remark did he, Major Anthony, make in regard to the guard firing upon the Indians?
Answer. I don't know as he made any just at that time. Some few hours afterwards he was laughing at the idea of seeing the Indians
run. He said that they had annoyed him enough, and that was the only way to get rid of them, or words to that effect.
Direct examination of W. H. Valentine by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of W. H. Valentine by the commission:
Question. Are you familiar with the signs and motions used by Indians in conversation?
Answer. I understand some of it.
Question. Are you sure the Indians you accused of killing the soldiers understood your signs and motions?
Answer. I was pretty sure they did. That was what brought the conversation and motions about. They were in my office at the time,
and I drove them out.
Question. Of what tribe were these Indians you speak of?
Answer. John Smith, Indian interpreter, said that they were Arapahoes and Cheyennes.
Question. Were the mules you speak of brought into the post by the Indians?
Answer. Yes, they were. They were on the opposite side of the river from the post--eight head of them--and were annoying us all the
time. It was an impossible thing to keep them out of the quartermaster's herd. There was an order issued by Wynkoop not to
meddle with those mules until after the difficulty with the Indians was settled.
Question. Did the Indians take the mules away from the post when they left?
Answer. No; five of them were turned over to Major Anthony, by the Indians.
Question. Were not the guard instructed to discharge their pieces, and give the alarm of Indians, when seen to approach the post?
Answer. Their orders were to fire either over or at them, or close to them, to frighten them. They were to shoot in the direction of the
Indians, to drive them out of the post.
PAGE 227
Question. Did the guard fire upon all Indians who approached the post after Major Anthony took command?
Answer. Only this one time that I ever saw the guard fired on the Indians.
Question. Did the guard kill or wound any of the Indians they fired upon?
Answer. Not any.
Question. Did you see any Indians in the post after you saw the guard fire upon them?
Answer. I saw Left Hand afterwards. He was the only one I saw for about ten days, I think.
Question. Could Left Hand talk to you in English?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Did Major Anthony, after the Indians had left the post, meet them in council, or have any talk with them, outside the post?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question is calling out new matter,
which cannot be done in a cross-examination. We have not inquired in regard to any council that Major Anthony might have had with
them--only what the guard did when Major Anthony was in command of the post.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Cross-examination of W. H. Valentine by the commission closed.
Re-examination of W. H. Valentine: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 25, 1865.
SEVENTY-THIRD DAY.
MAY 25, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
J. M. Chivington gave notice that he did not wish to introduce any more witnesses on the defence.
Therefore the defence is hereby closed.
Captain E. A. Jacobs, acting as president of the commission, announced that the commission stood adjourned until 9 a. m.
Saturday, May, 27, 1865. No vote taken. Which action I respectfully protest against.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain Company F, Veteran Battalion,
First Colorado Cavalry, Recorder.
DENVER, May 25, 1865.
I was absent this morning on the reading of the journal, and find that a majority of the commission having assembled, read and
approved of the journal of yesterday, and adjourned until Saturday, 9 o'clock. I have caused the journal to be read to me by the clerk,
find it correct, and therefore add my approval to the same, and also to the adjournment until Saturday morning, 9 o'clock.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of the Commission.
SEVENTY-FOURTH DAY.
MAY 27, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Recorder being absent, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. Monday, May 29, 1865.
PAGE 228
SEVENTY-FIFTH DAY.
MAY 29, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of Saturday, May 27, 1865, read and approved.
I move that a careful synopsis of the evidence, as taken by the commission, be made in an index form, or what may more properly
be called an index, giving all the facts as testified to by the witnesses, the pages upon which they can be found, and appended to
these proceedings.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry.
The motion was not sustained by a majority of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
To enable the recorder to complete certain papers the commission adjourn until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 30, 1865; J. M. Chivington
having been notified that no more evidence would be received or introduced by this commission.
SEVENTY-SIXTH DAY.
MAY 30, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The journal of Saturday, May 27th, instant, amended so as to read "that the journal of the 25th instant was read and approved."
The recorder was instructed by the commission to examine the record, to carefully unite it by a tape, and seal it in such a manner as
to keep it together, and certify to its being properly arranged, previous to its being signed by the commission.
I certify that I have, in compliance with the foregoing order, carefully examined the record, and to the best of my knowledge it is
properly arranged.
"GEORGE H. STILWELL,
"Captain Veteran Battalion, First Colorado Cavalry, Recorder."
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Colonel Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President Military Commission.
E. A. JACOBS,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry.
Member Military Commission.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
Recorder Military Commission.
The commission, having no further business before it, adjourned sine die.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of the Commission.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain, Veteran Battalion, First Colorado Cavalry,
Recorder of the Commission.
ADJUTANT GENERAL'S OFFICE,
Washington, February 12, 1867.
Official copy:
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant General.
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF COLORADO,
Denver, April 7, 1865.
CAPTAIN: Colonel J. M. Chivington, late of the first regiment Colorado cavalry, having made application to Brigadier General Connor,
commanding district of the plains, to have the evidence of one L. Meyer taken, regarding the Sand creek affair, in the absence of the
military commission now investigating the matter at Fort Lyon, you will, in obedience to instructions received from General Connor,
take the affidavit of Meyer on the subject, in presence of Colonel Chivington, and forward the same, properly attested, to these
headquarters to-day.
Respectfully, your obedient servant,
T. MOONLIGHT,
Colonel Eleventh Kansas Cavalry, Commanding.
Captain JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Judge Advocate, Denver, Colorado Territory.
Pursuant to the foregoing authorities directing me, as judge advocate of the district of Colorado, district of the plains, to take the
deposition of one L. Meyer, with reference to his knowledge of facts connected with the Sand creek affair, in accordance with
directions by me received, and proper notification to the parties being given that the deposition of L. Meyer would be taken before
me, at my office, at 2½ o'clock p. m. of April 7, 1865, J. M. Chivington, late colonel first Colorado cavalry, duly appeared by counsel at
the hour and place above mentioned, and presented Mr. L. Meyer, who, being by me first duly sworn, testified and deposed as
follows, viz:
lst question, direct examination, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. State your name, age, occupation, and place of residence.
Answer. Lipman Meyer; age, thirty-four years; freighter; place of residence, Leavenworth.
2d question, by counsel. Where were you on or about the 1st day of December, 1864, and what were you then engaged in?
Answer. I was on the Arkansas, about thirty miles east of Fort Lyon. I was on my way with a train going to New Mexico.
3d question, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. Do you know a captain by the name of Silas S. Soule?
Answer. I know an officer by the name of Soule. I have heard him styled captain.
4th question, by J. M. Chivington's counsel. Did you see Captain Soule at the time you came on the Arkansas, and was he then in
command of a detachment of troops? If so, how many men had he under his command, and upon what duty were they ordered, and
were you with that command; did you accompany them?
Answer. I did see Captain Soule when I was on the Arkansas. He was in command of troops, to the best of my knowledge; I believe
he had twenty men. I heard them say they were ordered to go and see after my train. I accompanied the command.
5th question. Where was your train at that time?
Answer. It was on the Aubrey route, about thirty miles south of the Arkansas river.
6th question, Did Captain Soule start with his command for your train?
Answer. He started about the 2d of 3d day of December.
7th question. Were you with the command?
Answer. I was with the command.
8th question. At what hour did Captain Soule with his command start for your train?
PAGE 185
Answer. I suppose it was between 10 and 11 o'clock in the forenoon of the 2d or 3d day of December.
9th question. How far did the command go south of the Arkansas river?
Answer. I cannot give the exact distance; but I suppose, judging from the time we were going; we might have gone fifteen miles.
10th question. Did you see any Indians during the trip?
Answer. I did not?
11th question. Did the command go to your train?
Answer. They did not.
12th question. At what hour did Captain Soule's command return to place of starting?
Answer. The following day, in the morning, by 6 or 7 o'clock.
13th question. At what hour did the command arrive at the Arkansas?
Answer. We commenced to return to the Arkansas on the night of the same day. I cannot give the hour; between 7 and 8 o'clock, I
suppose.
14th question. Was Captain Soule with the command all this time?
Answer. He was.
15th question. Why did not Captain Soule proceed to the train?
Answer. He gave me his reasons; he had no provisions along, and he saw a fire in the direction where I suppose my train was, and
was afraid to go there.
16th question. Did you hear the report that Captain Soule made to Colonel Chivington, on his return from this expedition?
Answer. I heard Captain Soule making a statement to Colonel Chivington.
17th question. State as nearly as you can what that report or statement was.
Answer. He said that he had seen two Indian camps, and was from a half mile to a mile from them, and supposed the Indians
numbered from three to five hundred, and heard the dogs bark.
18th question. When was this report made?
Answer. It was made on the 4th or 5th of December.
19th question. Did you see any Indian camps on the expedition?
Answer. I did not see any Indians.
20th question. Did you see any fires?
Answer. I did see fires.
21st question. At what time?
Answer. I saw it in day-light; the smoke from 2 o'clock in the day until 12 o'clock at night.
22d question. How far from you and the command did the fire appear to be?
Answer. One fire I judged to be fifteen miles distant, and one fire I would suppose was a mile or a mile and a half distant.
23d question. Did you see anything more than the smoke of the fire?
Answer. I did not.
24th question. Did Captain Soule send any one forward to ascertain whether the smoke arose from a camp-fire of emigrants or of
Indians?
Answer. He did not. I insisted on his going, but he refused to do so.
25th question. Did he at the time say that he saw Indians?
Answer. He said he supposed they must be Indians?
26th question. In what condition was Captain Soule on this expedition; intoxicated, or not?
Answer. I should judge him to be drunk--judging from his actions.
27th question. In what condition was he when this command went into camp that night at the Arkansas?
Answer. He was drunk.
28th question. State did Colonel Chivington and his command pass the camp of Captain Soule that night on their way down the
Arkansas.
Answer. I did not see them; but I understand they did.
29th question. State what you know about Captain Soule's belief that his
PAGE 186
camp was attacked by Indians that night, and what occurred in connection therewith.
Answer. At about two o'clock. a. m., about the fourth or fifth of December, while we were in camp, we heard a great noise, indicating
that Indians were moving up or down the road. The sentinel, or whoever was on guard, gave the alarm of Indians, and everybody
was waked up. Captain Soule remained sleeping. The sergeant tried to wake him up, but he delayed and detained the company
about half an hour before he got awake or rational. When he got awake he did not know which was up or down the river. His
programme was to go up the river, to the camp where we started from, but he was unable to tell which was up or down, and I and
the sergeant insisted upon his going with us. We knew the road to the camp where we started from, and he insisted on his way of
going, but his company refused to follow him, and stated they never would go out with him any more on a scout. Finally he went the
way we wanted him to go--up the river, as we proposed.
30th question. Did you have any blankets upon that trip, and in whose possession or keeping were they?
Answer. I had blankets--two pair, and they were stolen from me.
31st question. By whom do you think they were taken?
Answer. I have reason to believe that either they were taken by Captain Soule or Lieutenant Cannon.
Cross-examined by judge advocate:
lst question. You say you are by occupation a freighter. State under what circumstances you became acquainted with Captain Soule.
Answer. I met Captain Soule in the command of Colonel Chivington on or about the 1st or 2d of December, 1864.
2d question. Was Captain Soule in command of troops at this time?
Answer. He was in command of troops.
3d question. How many men had he under his command?
Answer. To the best of my belief, there were about twenty men.
4th question. Where was Colonel Chivington's command at the time you became acquainted with Captain Soule?
Answer. He was at a place near Camp Wynkoop, about sixty miles from Fort Lyon.
5th question. How long did you remain at Camp Wynkoop?
Answer. I remained near Camp Wynkoop one night.
6th question. Was your train near Camp Wynkoop?
Answer. My train, I suppose, at that time was from thirty to forty miles from Camp Wynkoop.
7th question. Did you accompany Colonel Chivington's command?
Answer. I did.
8th question. How long were you with his command on the march?
Answer. I was with his command on the march between five and seven days. Not less than five nor more than seven days.
9th question. Was Captain Soule's command with Colonel Chivington's on the 4th of December?
Answer. It was, to the best of my belief.
10th question. State upon what expedition and for what purpose Captain Soule and his command were sent away from Colonel
Chivington's command.
Answer. Captain Soule told me that Colonel Chivington sent him out to see after my train, which was upon the Aubrey route on the
way to New Mexico.
11th question. Did Captain Soule tell you this while in Colonel Chivington's camp?
Answer. He told me this while on the road from the camp.
12th question. How far from Colonel Chivington's camp was it when he told you the object of his expedition?
PAGE 187
Answer. I would suppose within three miles of the camp.
13th question. Did you accompany the expedition with the consent of Captain Soule before he left camp?
Answer. I did not ask him before he left camp. I merely followed. Colonel Chivington told me that the command was going, and if I
wanted to go, I could do so.
14th question. Did you see Captain Soule drink any spirituous or intoxicating liquor when upon that expedition?
Answer. I did, sir.
15th question. How do you know it to have been spirituous or intoxicating?
Answer. He offered it to me, and I drank with him.
16th question. Did he drink frequently?
Answer. He did.
17th question. Did he offer it to you frequently?
Answer. He did.
18th question. Did you not drink upon such occasions with him?
Answer. I did.
19th question. Did you at any time refuse to drink with him?
Answer. I did.
20th question. How near your train did the expedition go?
Answer. I can only say indefinitely; I suppose we went within twenty miles of it.
21st question. How many days were you out upon that expedition? I mean the time between when you started, until your return to
place of starting?
Answer. I should say it was from eighteen to twenty hours.
22d question. At the time of an alarm in camp, did you see Captain Soule asleep, and know that it was difficult to arouse him?
Answer. I did, sir; I saw him asleep and tried to wake him up myself.
23d question. Did you advise his men not to follow him when he wished to go down the river, and tell them that Captain Soule was
wrong?
Answer. I did not exercise any influence over his men. I told the sergeant or corporal, in the hearing of the men, that the other way, up
the river, was the way we wanted to go.
24th question. Did you repeat this remark more than once?
Answer. I could not say whether I did or not.
25th question. Did you express to the men any dislike you felt for Captain Soule?
Answer. I did not.
26th question. Did you ever say to Captain Soule or Lieutenant Cannon, you thought he or they had stolen your blankets?
Answer. I made that assertion to Lieutenant Cannon through a letter, after hearing from Colonel Shoup that Dr. Leas, being in my
company when my blankets were taken, had said that he heard Lieutenant Cannon making his brags that he knew what became of
my blankets, and knew who had taken them. I have never accused him of taking the blankets.
Cross-examination, by judge advocate, here closed.
Direct examination by the counsel resumed:
1st question. How often and how much did you drink when you were upon that expedition with Captain Soule?
Answer. I drank twice, and very little.
LIPMAN MEYER.
Sworn and subscribed to before me this 7th day of April, A. D. 1865.
JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
Assistant Commissary of Musters, and Judge Advocate.
Witness: ALFRED SAYRE.
PAGE 188
I, Jno. C. Anderson, captain veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, judge advocate, Territory of Colorado, district of the plains, do
certify on honor, that, previous to the commencement of the examination of Mr. L. Meyer, he, the said L. Meyer, was duly sworn by me
to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth, so far as he should be interrogated.
The foregoing deposition was taken in my office, in the city of Denver, county of Arapahoe, Territory of Colorado, on the 7th day of
April A. D. 1865; and that after said deposition was taken by me as aforesaid, the interrogatories and answers thereto, as written
down, were read over to the said witness, and that thereupon the same was signed and sworn to by the said deponent, L. Meyer,
before me, the oath being administered by me, at the place and on the day and year last aforesaid.
JOHN C. ANDERSON,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
A. C. M., and Judge Advocate.
[Indorsements on the above paper.]
DENVER, COLORADO TERRITORY, April 7, 1865.
Evidence of Lipman Meyer, concerning the Sand creek affair, taken in absence of the military commission, by Captain John C.
Anderson, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, judge advocate, district of Colorado, on the 7th day of April, 1865.
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF COLORADO,
Denver, April 8, 1865.
Respectfully forwarded to Brigadier General Connor, commanding district of the plains.
T. MOONLIGHT.
Colonel Eleventh Cavalry, Commanding.
HEADQUARTERS DISTRICT OF THE PLAINS,
Denver, April 10, 1865.
Respectfully forwarded to Captain George H. Stilwell, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, recorder of military commission.
By command:
GEORGE F. PRICE,
Acting Assistant Adjutant General.
I object to receiving, as evidence, the deposition of L. Meyer, for following reasons:
lst. The order of Colonel Moonlight, district commander, directing Captain Anderson to take deposition of L. Meyer, instructs him to
have the evidence of one L. Meyer taken regarding the Sand creek affair, to which the deposition has no reference, but refers to a
scout made afterwards, and therefore is not relevant to the matter of this investigation.
2d. It is evident that this witness has been introduced to testify that Captain Soule, on that scout, "was afraid, got drunk, and stole
blankets;" also that he refused to send men in advance, when he, Meyer, insisted upon his doing so--to push recklessly into the
heart of the Indian country, when his (Soule's) command was so small as hardly to justify his leaving camp, and under
circumstances requiring the greatest caution, would have been criminal, and his failing to do so is no evidence that he (Soule) was
afraid.
3d. Because it is evident that this deposition has been taken for the purpose of blackening the character of Captain Soule, to accuse
him of drunkenness, theft, and neglect of duty--this officer, who, since he was introduced before this commission as a witness has
been assassinated, twice before attempted, often threatened, and at last successful in his being instantly killed.
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4th. The said Captain Soule has been known to the undersigned for several years, and there is not in my opinion, any reason to
suspect him of being guilty of the charges alleged against him in the deposition of L. Meyer.
5th. For the reason that Captain Soule having been introduced before this commission to testify in regard to the Sand creek affair,
has been made subject to threats and assaults against his life, and as appears from annexed statement of Captain Price, who had
a conversation with the deceased in reference to the affair of Sand creek, that Captain Soule had reason to believe that his
assassination had been determined on, and that attempts would be made to blacken his character after his death, on account of
certain evidence given by him, the said Captain Soule, before this commission;
"During the latter part of March, 1865, Captain Silas S. Soule and myself were riding in a buggy from Denver, Colorado Territory, to
Central City, Colorado Territory. In a conversation had on that occasion, he referred to the affair at Sand creek, Colorado Territory,
and the nature of his testimony about it; that he fully expected to be killed on account of that testimony; that he was also fully
satisfied, after they had killed him, his character would be assailed, and an attempt made to destroy his testimony before a certain
commission instructed to take testimony concerning the said Sand creek affair.
"I testified the above in substance before a certain coroner's jury held in this town over the body of Captain Silas S. Soule, who was
assassinated in the streets of Denver on the night of April 23, 1865.
"GEORGE F. PRICE,
"Captain Second California Cavalry, Denver City, C. T.,
"District Inspector and A. A. A. General.
"MAY 3, 1865."
Therefore I object to receive as evidence the deposition of the said L. Meyer.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Colonel Vet. Batt., First Colorado Cavalry,
President Military Commission.
The following protest was filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened as per
Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado:
I protest against the objections made by Lieutenant Colonel S. F. Tappan president of said commission--
1st. That the action of the president of this commission in going inside of the record in making his objections, by relating
conversations, &c., related by others, is, to say the least, manifesting an interest in the disposition of this case that does not accord
with the presumption we must entertain of his impartial feelings in regard to the matter.
2d. That the evidence of Mr. Meyer, a person who was with Captain Soule, and who testified in compliance with orders, &c., from the
general commanding, was given before Captain Soule's death, and to Captain Soule's knowledge, while they, Soule and Meyer,
were both in Denver; that the intimations thrown out by the president of this commission in regard to the death of Captain Soule,
calling it "an assassination," when it is well known that Captain Soule was killed by one Squires, a soldier of the second Colorado
Cavalry, which Squires admitted before he made his escape, is, to say the least, not becoming the dignity of one holding the
position of president of a tribunal such as this commission is supposed to be, and appears to me more like malice than a desire to
fairly object to the question. Hoping such is not the case,
I remain, respectfully,
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
Commission rooms were cleared for discussion. Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
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Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
(The objection of Lieutenant Colonel Samuel F. Tappan, president of the commission, relative to deposition of one L. Meyer,
sustained by the commission.)
T. G. CREE, late captain third Colorado cavalry, introduced by J. M. Chivington, to give evidence. The oath being administered
according to law, he (Cree) testified as follows:
Question. What is your name, and what position have you occupied in the army for the last three years? State particularly.
Answer. Theodore G. Cree. I have been in the army part off the time as an officer, both in the States and Colorado Territory. Very near
three years ago I went into the army as second lieutenant after the battle of Vicksburg, promoted to captain in the 23d Iowa infantry.
On the 27th of August, 1863, I resigned on account of ill health, and came to this country. In the latter part of July, (I think it was,)
1864, upon the request of Governor Evans, of Colorado, I raised a company for the third Colorado cavalry. I held the position of
captain until mustered out on account of expiration of time of service.
Question. Did you have any conversation with Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, or other officers, in regard to the propriety of
attacking the Indians at Sand creek, either before or after the battle of Sand creek? If so, state what that conversation was.
Answer. I had a conversation with Major Anthony after the battle of Sand creek, at the last camp down the Arkansas, I think about one
hundred miles below Fort Lyon. Colonel Chivington was talking of moving back, and not pursuing the Indians; and further, I was
talking with Major Anthony in his tent about the propriety of going back, and he said that he was very much opposed to it, and said he
should do all he could to prevent it. He said that we had done a good thing, and he believed in following it up; that he knew about
where their camp was or where they made their headquarters, and he thought we could catch them. That is about all the
conversation I had with him in regard to that matter.
Question. Do you remember anything else Major Anthony said in regard to the Indians at Sand creek? If so, state it.
Answer. I don't recollect anything else he said; I did not pay much attention to what he said at the time; I thought he was about
two-thirds tight.
Question. On your return toward Denver, and while at Colonel Bent's ranch, at the mouth of the Purgatory, did you have a
conversation with any officer in regard to Colonel Chivington; and if so, what was that conversation, and who was the officer or
officers?
Answer. I had a conversation there with Lieutenant Cramer in regard to Colonel Chivington and officers of the third. I don't recollect
all the conversation that occurred there; I recollect of his saying that all that Colonel Chivington was working for was a brigadier
general's commission, and that he did not care how many lives he lost in getting it so that he got it; and that we (meaning himself
and I don't know who else} were going to crush him if we could. He said he thought they could make a massacre out of the Sand
creek affair and crush him. I asked him what Colonel Chivington had done to him to make him hate him so. He said that he did not
know that he had done anything. He said he would like to see the Indians killed just as much as we would. He said they had got
their play in on Chivington and they were going to play it. Then I told him that there no use of our discussing that question, as we
would only make enemies of ourselves, and I thought it was best for us not to say any thing more about it. The rest of our talk was
not in connection with this affair.
Question. Did you have any conversation with Cramer in regard to the guerillas that were killed?
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(Question objected to by Lieutenant Colonel Tappan, president of the commission on the grounds of its being leading.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you have any conversation with Cramer in regard to guerillas? If so, what was the conversation? State particularly.
Answer. I had some conversation with him in regard to guerillas: They were known by the name of Reynolds's party. He wanted to
know what my orders were in relation to them. I told him my orders were to take them to Captain Gray's camp on the Arkansas and
to turn them over to him, and he was to take them to Fort Lyon. Then he wanted to know what was done with them; I told him that
they died for the want of breath; he said that was another murder of Colonel Chivington's. I asked him how he knew; he said he did
not know for certain, but he thought it was done to enable him to get his brigadier's straps. I told him he was badly mistaken; that I
took that all on myself. He said that he did not like to dispute my word, but that he could not think otherwise but what it was orders
from Chivington. I told him I could not help what he thought; that is about all that was said in reference to them. He said he hoped.
they were in heaven; I said I hoped so too, as I thought they would be better off there than in this country.
Question. Did you, at any time during that conversation with Cramer, state that the guerillas were killed by Chivington's orders?
Answer. I did not.
Question. Upon your arrival at Colonel Bent's with your detachment, did you take command of all the troops at that place? If so, state
what you did.
Answer. I took command of the troops that were there as soon as I arrived. I gave Lieutenant Cramer an order to report at Fort Lyon
in his own district the next morning. I also gave the lieutenant commanding detachment of third regiment orders to report to his
command at Bent's old fort.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer obey the order you gave him?
Answer. I suppose he did. He left there the next morning the same time I left.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer make any remarks to you concerning the order you gave him?
Answer. No.
Direct examination of T. G. Cree by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of T. G. Cree, by the commission:
Question. What was the date of your muster into the service as captain third Colorado cavalry, and the date of your muster out?
Answer. Mustered in, I think, the 20th of August, 1864. Mustered out the 28th of December, (I think it was,) 1864.
Question. Who were present at Colonel Bent's during the conversation you had with Lieutenant Cramer?
Answer. Colonel Bent. He was there part of the time, and a part of the time we were alone. Part of the time Lieutenant Graham was
present.
Question. How many of Reynolds's party were you ordered to take to Camp Fillmore?
Answer. Five, I believe.
Question. Where and from whom did you receive these prisoners?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the reason that the court has no right to cross examine in relation to new matter not
called out in the examination in chief.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What did you tell Lieutenant Cramer you had done with these prisoners?
Answer. I did not tell him I had done anything with them.
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Question. In what manner, and by what authority, did you assume command of all the troops at Colonel Bent's?
Answer. I assumed command by order of Colonel Shoup, commanding the troops on their way up to Denver.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer report to you for orders?
Answer. He did not.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cramer say the Indians at Sand creek were under the protection of the government, as a reason for his
denouncing the fight as a murder or massacre?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, on the ground that it is new matter, not called on the examination in chief, and therefore
illegal.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What did you tell Lieutenant Cramer you took all on yourself?
Answer. In regard to disposing of those "guerrillas."
Question. Did you refer to the killing of them?
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the reason that the witness has not stated anything in regard to the killing of the
guerillas, therefore this is new matter and illegal.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. In your conversation with Lieutenant Cramer, who did you refer to as having died for the want of breath?
Answer. I referred to James Reynolds and his guerilla party.
Cross-examination of T. G. Cree by the commission closed.
Re-examination:
No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 8½ a. m. to morrow, May 6, 1865.
FIFTY-SEVENTH DAY.
MAY 6, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
S. P. ASHCRAFT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Ashcraft)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name, and how long have you lived in what is now known as Colorado Territory, and how long have you
been acquainted with the Indians of the plains?
Answer. Samuel Plummer Ashcraft; I have been in Colorado Territory since 1857; I have known the Indians of the plains since 1847.
Question. What have been your means of knowledge of the Indians of the plains? State particularly.
Answer. I have been with them and traded with them; as for the Sioux Indians, I expect I understand them about as well as any
person in the country. The Cheyennes, I expect I understand their ways and actions as well as the Sioux, but I do not speak their
language as well.
Question. Do you know whether or not the Cheyenne and Sioux Indians have been at war with the whites? If yes, please state you
first knowledge of it--particularly, as well as you know, of their hostile acts.
Answer. Yes, I know they were at war with the whites, and more than that, I know that they commenced the war with the whites. In the
first part of this war, some sixteen or eighteen Cheyennes came from some place on the headwaters of Beaver creek, and came
into Frémont's Orchard; a day or two, I think, before they came in, they took some horses and mules from a man, who came in and
reported the fact to Captain Sanborn. Captain Sanborn sent out Lieutenant Dunn with a squad of men--I don't know how many, I
PAGE 193
think fifteen. Under what orders Lieutenant Dunn was, I do not know. After Lieutenant Dunn found these Indians near Frémont's
Orchard, on the north side of the South Platte, he went to them and ordered them to give up their arms; his men dismounted to take
their arms. They gave up one gun and a single barrelled pistol. The Indians then turned and fired. I suppose they fired three or four
shots before the soldiers fired; one of their men that died was shot before the soldiers fired. They had a fight there, which lasted
probably an hour and a half. Lieutenant Dunn had two men killed and four wounded. The Indians had two of their number wounded,
none killed.
Question. Did you hear any rumors of hostility from the Indians toward the whites before this?
Answer. Yes; the winter before. All winter I heard it from the Indians three or four different times.
Question. State what you heard from the Indians.
Answer. The Sioux told me that the Cheyennes had been talking of war with the whites all winter. They said that they (the
Cheyennes) were going to war against the whites on the road in the spring; that they were going to clean out all the ranchmen that
were on the road. (They came mighty near telling the truth, too.)
Question. What is your means of knowledge of the facts concerning the fight Lieutenant Dunn had with the Indians near Frémont's
orchard; did you see the fight, or only hear of it through others?
Answer. I only heard of it through others.
Question. Do you know of any acts of hostility perpetrated by the Indians upon the whites; if yes, please state what those acts were,
and what Indians perpetrated them?
Answer. I know that they killed men and drove off stock. They drove off some of my stock and killed one of my men, the next after they
had the fight with Lieutenant Dunn.
Direct examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by the commission:
Question. Where do you at present reside?
Answer. I live about fifty miles below here on the Platte. I also have a ranch one hundred miles below here on the Platte. I live there
part of the time.
Question. When did the Sioux Indians come into what is now known as Colorado Territory?
Answer. I don't recollect. Before '47 they were in this country.
Question. Are you acquainted with all the Cheyennes?
Answer. I am acquainted with all the different bands of Cheyennes.
Question. Into how many bands were the Cheyennes divided?
Answer. Four bands of them.
Question. Of what band were those Indians who had the fight with Lieutenant Dunn?
Answer. They were a part of Black Kettle's band.
Question. Were they what is known as Dog soldiers?
Answer. They were not. The Dog soldiers are Bull Bear's band.
Question. How many horses and mules did these Indians steal before crossing into Frémont's Orchard?
Answer. I am not positive of more than two.
Question. Where is Beaver creek--head-waters of it?
Answer. It heads under the divide between the Platte and Arkansas, and empties into the Platte. The head of it is about eighty-five
miles southeast from here.
Ex. Doc. 26-----13
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Question. What is your means of knowledge that the Cheyennes stole a horse and a mule before reaching Frémont's Orchard?
Answer. They acknowledged it. They said that they had found them, and the man they were taken from said they stole them.
Question. What did the Indians do with the horse and mule?
Answer. One of them the soldiers got; the other they kept.
Question. Was the taking of this horse and mule the commencement of the Indian difficulties?
Answer. I do not think it was. They claimed that the whites were beating them out of their land. They were dissatisfied with the Boone
treaty. I think this treaty was in the spring of 1861.
Question. Was the taking of this horse the first hostile act of the Indians against the whites?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Was this considered by the people an act of war, or the commencement of war by the Indians against the whites?
(John. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the reason that the opinion of Mr. Ashcraft is not proper; that the
court has commenced the examination of the witness on new matter, and that the witness has stated the knowledge he has of the
facts is from others.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What bands of the Cheyennes were referred to by the Sioux as intending to make war upon the whites?
Answer. All of them. They were all then in the village.
Question. Is what you have stated your only means of information that the Cheyennes intended to make war upon the whites?
Answer. Yes. My information came through the Indians.
Cross-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your means of knowledge of the fight between Lieutenant Dunn and the Indians, and the stealing of horse and
mule or horses and mules; is it from others, or did you see these things?
Answer. Only from the Indians and the whites.
Re-examination of Samuel P. Ashcraft closed.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
STEPHEN DECATUR introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Decatur)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name and are you acquainted with the habits and customs of Indians. If yes, state how long you have
been acquainted, and what your means of knowledge were?
Answer. Stephen Decatur. I lived among the Indians nearly seven years.
Question. Where were you on the 29th day of November, 1864? Have you been in the army?
Answer. I was at Sand creek. I served in the Mexican War, and also in the hundred day regiment of Colorado, (third regiment of
Colorado cavalry.) Question. Please state particularly what occurred at Sand creek of your own knowledge only.
Answer. We came in sight of the village about daylight, or a little after. I think it was about sunrise, or a little after, when our company
was ordered to halt in the bed of the creek, by Colonel Chivington, and strip for the fight. We then moved up a short distance and
unlimbered, (I belonged to Captain
PAGE 195
Morgan's company, C, artillery,) and commenced throwing shell. I was not with the company all the time, for the reason that
Lieutenant Colonel Bowen had requested me to act as his battalion adjutant. This firing took place near the upper end of the village;
after firing a few rounds the company was ordered forward, and we took a position about three quarters of a mile above the village;
at which place, and near there, I remained the principal part of the day. I saw one man lying dead, partially under his horse, in the
village. I saw a number of wounded passing up to the ambulances. I saw one fellow with a squaw prisoner and a child. He asked
what he should do with them. I told him to take them up to headquarters. To sum it all up in brief, that was my fourth battle, and I
never saw harder fighting on both sides in my life. The next day after the battle I went over the battle-ground, in the capacity of clerk,
for Lieutenant Colonel Bowen, and counted four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors. I will here explain that a question was raised
in camp what chiefs were killed. Lieutenant Colonel Bowen took an escort of troops and went over the field. John Smith was taken
along to recognize the chiefs and the principal warriors that were killed, I acting as clerk, and I took pleasure in going, as the
evening before, while the village was being burned, (which was not all completely destroyed when I came back to camp, which was
in the Indian village,) I saw that which made me feel as though I should have liked to have spent a little more time fighting. As I was
going out to get some of the lodge-poles for wood, I saw some of the men opening bundles or bales. I saw them take therefrom a
number of white persons' scalps--men's, women's, and children's; some daguerreotypes, ladies' wearing apparel and white
children's, and saw part of a lady's toilet and one box of rouge, also a box containing a powder puff. I saw one scalp of a white
woman in particular that I want to describe to you. It had been taken entirely off the head; the head had been skinned, taking all the
hair; the scalp had been tanned to preserve it; the hair was auburn and hung in ringlets; it was very long hair. There were two holes
in the scalp in front, for the purpose of tying it on their heads when they appeared in the scalp dance. Seeing all these things made
me anxious to go over the battle-ground and see haw many we had killed. I saw, comparatively speaking, a small number of
women killed. They were in the rifle pits. (The most of them where it would have been impossible to have avoided killing them if we
had been ever so much disposed to save them.) After going over the main battle-ground we returned to the village, and I did all I
could to destroy their effects. That is, in brief, what I saw on the 29th and 30th of last November at Sand creek. There is one matter
that occurs to me just at this moment: Just after our artillery had ceased firing, I saw an acquaintance in the bed of the creek, and I
told him he was in a dangerous place, and asked him what he was going to do, and (I thought I would have a little fun on my own
hook) he said there was an Indian in a hole under the bank that could talk English, (this was in reply to me,) and I started to go to
him; just as I got near the edge of the bank he hallooed out to me not to come down there, for the Indian would shoot me; as I turned
on my heel to go away from the bank, I heard a voice under the bank say, "Come on, you God damn white sons of bitches, and kill
me if you are a brave man."
Question. Were the scalps you speak of the scalps of white men, women and children?
Answer. Yes, they were.
Question. Had the Indians prepared any rifle-pits, or other means of defence, on your arrival at the village on Sand creek, on the 29th
day of November, 1864?
Answer. They must have done it, as there were holes longer and deeper than they could have dug after we attacked them in the
morning. That is my honest opinion.
PAGE 196
Question. Describe these rifle-pits, how they were constructed, and where dug.
Answer. They were dug under the banks, and in the bed of the creek, and, in fact, all over, where there was a little mound or bunch of
grass or weeds favorable for concealment. They were dug with hoes or shovels large enough for a man to operate in, from three to
four feet wide, some six feet long and longer. That is my recollection of it now. I did not measure them. I thought at the time that they
must have been dug, for the reason that at the first camp from the battle-field I found some of the same kind of pits, where they (the
Indians) had camped quite recently before.
Question. Were you at the village when the attack was first made by the troops on the Indians?
Answer. I was not quite in the village; I saw it.
Direct examination of Stephen Decatur, by J. M. Chivington, closed.
Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur, by the commission:
Question. Where do you reside?
Answer. In Denver.
Question. What position did you hold in the third regiment?
Answer. Commissary sergeant of company C.
Question. You say you counted four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors. Where did you find these dead Indians?
Answer. Scattered promiscuously over the battle-ground.
Question. How large was the battle-ground?
Answer. It was pretty extensive. We, I should think, went up the creek about three miles, as near as I could judge from the time we
rode.
Question. Did you ride all over the battle-ground?
Answer. There was one portion of the battle-ground that I did not go on. John Smith had recognized Black Kettle, Little Robe, and
White Antelope, and the near approach of night caused the lieutenant colonel to return to camp.
Question. Who accompanied you?
Answer. Lieutenant Colonel Bowen, in command, and Lieutenant De La Mar, in command of the escort, and John Smith, who I
understand was the Indian interpreter at Fort Lyon, whom we found in the village trading with the Indians.
Question. At what time did you start out to ride over the battle-field to count the dead?
Answer. My impression now is that it was between two and three o'clock in the afternoon of the 30th of November, 1864.
Question. At what time did you return to camp?
Answer. Not a great while before night; about time to eat a little, and fix my bed, before it was dark.
Question. Was it during this ride you saw the four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors?
Answer. Yes, the ride on the 30th, I said.
Question. Who did the counting of the dead for the party?
Answer. I did on my own hook, for my own satisfaction.
Question. On which side of the creek did you see the dead Indians?
Answer. I saw them on both sides, and in the bed of the creek.
Question. Did you ride up one side of the creek and down the other?
Answer. Our route took us up angling across from one bank to the other, and coming back we returned on the east side of the bank
nearly all the way on the prairie. I do not know that my knowledge of the points of the compass is right, but we returned on the side
next to Lort Fyon. [sic]
Question. How many did you see on the east side of the creek?
Answer. I did not keep an account of their exact whereabouts. I did not
PAGE 197
expect to be called upon at any time to give any testimony in regard to it before a military commission.
Question. Were there any dead Indians on the east side of the creek?
Answer. If the east side is next to Fort Lyon, there were.
Question. How many, or what proportion of the whole number, did you see on the east side of the creek?
Answer. On what I call the east side, on the prairie, i. e., out of the bed of the creek, there was only a small proportion of the four
hundred and fifty.
Question. How many or what proportion of the whole number did you see on the west side of the creek?
Answer. I cannot say, as I did not think at the time of remembering their whereabouts or their particular position on the battle-field.
Question. Did you see any dead Indians in the bed of the creek?
Answer. Yes, plenty of them.
Question. How many did you see in the bed of the creek?
Answer. I don't recollect what proportion were in the bed of the creek, but the most of the whole number I saw were in the bed of the
creek.
Question. How far above the village did you see the dead Indians?
Answer. I commenced counting at the village and about three miles or there abouts up the creek, and counted on my return those
that lay upon the prairie.
Question. Did the Indians appear as having been disturbed after they were killed?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That the question is in relation to new matter
which was not called out by the examination in chief; that it is therefore illegal and improper; The witness, in his examination in
chief, did not state, nor was he asked, anything about the Indians, whether they were disturbed or not.)
Commission rooms were cleared for deliberation.
Commission adjourned until 9 a m. Monday, May 8, 1865.
FIFTY-EIGHTH DAY.
MAY 8, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The objection of J. M. Chivington not having been decided, the commission rooms were cleared for deliberation.
Commission rooms again opened and the following decision of the commission announced, viz:
The objection of J. M. Chivington to question before adjournment, Saturday, May 6, 1865, not sustained by the commission.
The following request was filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened in pursuance of Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of
Colorado, &c.:
We would most respectfully request of the commission that they would have the following persons summoned immediately, to
testify to the subject-matter of this investigation.
Jay J. Johnson, Central City; D. H. Nichols, Boulder; Hal. Sayre, Central City; C. C. Hawley, Central City; Dr. James Bell, Idaho; David
Ripley, Boulder; Alexander F. Safely, company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
MAY 8, 1865.
PAGE 198
Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur by the commission, continued:
Answer to last question before adjournment, Saturday, May 6, 1865. They did appear to have been disturbed, some of them, not all.
Question. What Indians have you lived among for nearly seven years.
Answer. The Omahas, Ottoes and Missourias, Pawnees, Poncas, Santee, Sioux, and Yancton Sioux; I resided at Bellevue,
Nebraska Territory. I became intimately acquinted [sic] with the Omaha language, and well enough acquainted with the language of
all the rest to trade with them.
Question. What acquaintance have you with the Cheyennes and Arapahoes of the Upper Arkansas agency?
Answer. No personal acquaintance with them, only at Sand creek.
Question. You say Sand creek was your fourth battle, name the other three?
Answer. Battle of Brazito, Sacramento, about eleven or fifteen miles north of the city of Chihuahua, and in the State of Chihuahua.
The next was an Indian fight which occurred at a ranch about fifteen or twenty miles north of the city of Paras. It was with the White
Lipans or Comanches. I have seen the White Lipans or Comanches scalp their own men to prevent their scalps from being taken
by the whites.
Question. You say your name is Stephen Decatur; are you a descendant of the celebrated commodore of that name?
Answer. I am distantly connected.
Question. How do you know the scalps you saw were those of white men, women, and children?
Answer. By the color and fineness of their hair; I never saw an Indian with auburn hair in my life.
Question. How do you know the wearing apparel you saw in Black Kettle's camp was that of white women and children?
Answer. I know the habits and customs of the Indians, especially the wild Indians of the plains, well enough to know their prejudices
against the wearing apparel of the whites. I know that they had no person among them well skilled enough to make the dresses I
saw there.
Question. Are not the Cheyennes an exception to that rule? Have they not for years employed white women to make dresses for
their women and children, and received dress goods from their agent?
Answer. I don't know what has been given to them by their agents.
Question. Were not the tanned scalps you speak of as being auburn of a dull rusty color, very coarse in texture, and formerly of a
dark color, but faded by age?
Answer. No.
Question. What became of that scalp?
Answer. I do not know.
Question. Have you seen it since the time you speak of?
Answer. No. I heard that it was in town, and heard that it was in Boulder district somewhere, but I have not seen it.
Question. How near did you ride to the four hundred and fifty dead Indian warriors on the 30th of November last?
Answer. Near enough to count them and be positive.
Question. Did you keep a tally of the dead Indians as you passed them?
Answer. Every time I counted a hundred I dotted them down on my thumbnail. I will here state the reason I was so particular in
counting is this: I was at the house of Mrs. Hungate a few days before she was murdered, and I became attached to her and her
babes and I wished her friends to know how many of the bloody villains we had killed.
Question. Did you see the bodies of Black Kettle, White Antelope, Little Robe, and other chiefs as you rode over the field?
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Answer. I did, if John Smith told the truth. He pointed out what he said were the bodies of White Antelope, Black Kettle, and Little
Robe.
Question. Did you or your party scalp or mutilate these dead Indians?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That, like the question in relation to the
white women employed by the savages, and the dress-goods issued to the Indians, it is irrelevant and improper; that it is examining
on new matter, which is improper on a cross-examination, and to which we would have objected when the inquiry was made in
regard to the white women employed by the savages, but we thought the question so ridiculous to a person at all acquainted with
the Indians that we did not object, though if that led to the present question, we claim not to have lost any right that we may have to
object to the present question.)
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all the members and recorder.
The objection of J. M. Chivington before adjournment this a. m. overruled by the commission.
Answer. So far as I am concerned, I do not think I am a competent witness to exculpate or criminate myself. So far as any gentleman
of the party is concerned, I saw no mutilating or scalping by any of them.
Question. Have you now, or have you had since the 29th of November, 1864, in your possession, as trophies of Sand creek, ears
brought here to present to any person?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question relates to new matter and
is therefore improper, having no right in a cross-examination to inquire into anything except that which was called out by the defence.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. What were the depth, location, and number of the holes you saw at Sand creek, and call rifle-pits?
Answer. There were a great many of them, I did not count the number; they were deep enough for men to lie down and conceal
themselves, and load their guns in; some of them I should think were deeper than three feet. They were under the banks and in
every possible place where any degree of concealment could be afforded in the bed of the creek. They were all in the bed of the
creek. I saw none on the high prairie. They were above the village.
Question. What is the character of the soil in Sand creek where you saw the holes or rifle-pits?
Answer. Sandy, with strata of hard baked gravel.
Question. You say you saw some similar holes at a former and abandoned camp of Indians; state how many of these holes you
saw, and if these holes are not common in the Cheyenne camps, constructed for domestic purposes?
Answer. In all Indian villages in which I have been, they usually dug holes for the purpose of cooking meat. Those holes are dug in
the village, in the confines of the village, near the lodges. They do not go a mile or a half mile from camp; but these holes I saw were
not for cooking purposes, unless they cooked on a larger scale than any Indians I ever saw, or knew.
Question. What became of the scalps you saw in the camp, and who saw them besides yourself?
Answer. They were in the possession of various ones; I saw some of them a number of times in the road. I would know the men if I
saw them, but I do not know their names; I can find out, I think, if the court desires it.
Question. Have you ever gone by any other name than that of Stephen Decatur?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question is insulting to the witness,
and the court, instead of
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putting such questions, should protect the witness from them; that the question is irrelevant and improper, not pertaining to the
subject-matter of this investigation, upon which the court has recently decided that such evidence is improper; that the witness has
been introduced to testify in regard to Sand creek and not regarding his own private matters; that it is immaterial to this court
whether the witness goes by one name or another. Though the Indians might have called him by another name than Decatur; the
custom is a common one, known to all white men in this Territory, when coming in contact with Indians.
Commission room were cleared for discussion.
Commission rooms opened:
Objection of J. M. Chivington overruled by the commission.)
Answer. Not among white men; it is customary among Indians to give the traders an Indian name.
Question. Did the Indians, or others, ever call you by the name of Bross?
Answer. No.
Cross-examination of Stephen Decatur by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Stephen Decatur.
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. You stated you wished to make an amendment to your testimony; you will please do it now.
Answer. I said this morning that a great deal had been said about a white flag--about the Indians sending out a white flag, a flag of
truce. I saw none.
Question. Was there anything occurred, or any conversation had by any person in regard to a white flag? If so, please state what that
was particularly.
Answer. I never had any conversation with any one, only a short time since, and that was with Captain McCannon, and what I saw
charged in the paper, "that we had fired on the Indians after they had exhibited a white flag." I don't recollect of having any
conversation with any one about it, except Captain McCannon.
Question. If there had been a white flag shown by the Indians, would you have seen it?
Answer. Yes, I think I would.
Re-examination of Stephen Decatur closed.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 9, 1865.
FIFTY-NINTH DAY.
MAY 9, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
HENRY H. HEWITT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Hewitt)
testified as follows:
Question. What has been your occupation during the past eight months? If in the army, what position did you occupy, &c.?
Answer. On the 17th day of September, 1864 I was mustered into the service as second lieutenant, company I, third Colorado
cavalry, (one-hundred-days men,) and served in that capacity for the period of one hundred days.
Question. In your official capacity did you or not receive any ponies, &c., said to be captured at the battle of Sand creek? If so, state
the particulars.
Answer. I did. While in command of a detachment of the third Colorado cavalry, en route to Fort Lyon, on or about the 5th day of
December, 1864, while camping at Boone's ranch, I received information that one Duncan McKeith, and some Mexicans of
Lieutenant Antobe's detachment, had run off some ponies and mules while the fight was progressing at Sand creek. Thinking it
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my duty to inquire into the matter, I took a detachment of men and proceeded across the Arkansas river to Charles Antobe's ranch,
and surrounded the corral to prevent the escape of men and stock, if there concealed. I went into the corral and found Duncan
McKeith in a room adjoining the corral, who informed me that he had driven off between sixty and seventy head of ponies and mules
while the battle was progressing at Sand creek; that he did this by order of Lieutenant Antobe, and that Lieutenant Antobe said to
him that both Colonels Chivington and Shoup knew that the stock was driven off, and raised no objection to it. I took Duncan McKeith
and four Mexicans, (names not now recollected) in charge, and seized between sixty and seventy head of ponies and mules, and
drove them across the Arkansas river to Boone's ranche, where I placed them under guard. On the following morning I started with
the ponies and mules and Mexicans, with Duncan McKeith, for Fort Lyon, where I arrived on the 8th or 9th of December, 1864; on
arriving at Fort Lyon, I found from general conversation with officers and soldiers at the fort that the ponies and mules had been
stolen while the battle of Sand creek was progressing; also, that another herd had been driven over on the Cimaron, towards New
Mexico. Colonel Chivington arrived at Fort Lyon from pursuit of the Indians, after the battle of Sand creek, (as I was informed by
different persons,) the second night after my arrival at Fort Lyon. I reported to Colonel Chivington my action in seizing the ponies,
mules, and men in charge. His reply was, "You have done perfectly right; I am glad you did it; the men had no authority from myself
or Colonel Shoup to drive the stock off when they did. Lieutenant Antobe was instructed to drive the captured stock to Fort Lyon." I
turned in the stock which I took at Antobe's ranch, except four or five head that were re-stolen, and two head that gave out on the
road, to Lieutenant C. M. Cossitt, acting quartermaster at Fort Lyon, taking his receipt therefor. That, I think, comprises all I can say
on that question. I will say this: Colonel Chivington said to me, "that it was a scandal, that while the troops were fighting the Indians,
some scoundrels should shrink to plunder," or words to that effect. Colonel Chivington ordered me (verbally) to report, with my
detachment to Colonel Shoup, in command of third Colorado cavalry, which I did the day following.
Direct examination of Henry H. Hewitt by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Henry. H. Hewitt, by the commission:
Question. Were the parties you have mentioned as driving off or stealing the stock a portion of Colonel Chivington's command?
Answer. They were; so they informed me.
Question. Did Colonels Chivington or Shoup ever place these parties under arrest, and bring them to punishment for their acts?
Answer. I do not know.
Question. Were these ponies and mules included in the number reported captured from the Indians, by Colonel Chivington?
Answer. I cannot say, from my own knowledge; I was not present at the battle of Sand creek.
Question. Did Lieutenant Cossitt give you a memorandum receipt for the ponies?
Answer. He did, for the ponies and mules.
Question. Did you take this stock upon your returns as government property, and account for it as turned over to Lieutenant Cossitt?
Answer. I made a report to Colonel Shoup of the stock, but not to the Quartermaster General, from the fact that I did not consider
(never having receipted for the stock) that I was required to make a report to the Quartermaster General. I merely took Lieutenant
Cossitt's memorandum receipt for my own protection.
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I also made a report in writing to Lieutenant Charles Wheeler, acting adjutant general of the district of Colorado.
Cross-examination of Henry H. Hewitt by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Henry H. Hewitt:
No questions asked.
The following copy of request and affidavit filed by J. M. Chivington:
To the president and members of the military commission convened at Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of Special Orders
No. 23, headquarters District of Colorado, &c.:
GENTLEMEN: We would most respectfully request that you summon and cause to appear before your honorable court, without fail,
one Alexander Safely, company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, to testify to all he knows concerning the marches of the
troops under command of Colonel J. M. Chivington, first Colorado cavalry, and the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864,
said Safely being an important witness in the investigation of said marches and battle; as will more fully appear by accompanying
affidavit.
Most respectfully,
JOHN M. CHIVINGTON,
Late Colonel First Colorado Cavalry.
John M. Chivington, late colonel first Colorado cavalry, being first duly sworn, deposes and says that one Alexander F. Safely,
company C, veteran battalion first Colorado cavalry, is material witness in his behalf to show certain facts connected with the
marches and battle of Sand creek, before the military commission now convened in Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of
Special Orders No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado, &c.; that the said facts, or all of them, cannot be shown by any other
person that I know of at present, and that without the said Alexander F. Safely he would lose very reliable evidence which would
materially affect his acts in the eyes of the government; and further deponent saith not.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 9th day of May 1865.
[SEAL.] ---------------,
Notary Public.
The recorder is hereby ordered to summon the witnesses as requested by J. M. Chivington.
By order of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 2 o'clock. this p. m.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Dr. CALEB S. BIRDSAL introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law; he (Burdsal)
testified as follows:
Question. Did you occupy a position in the third regiment Colorado cavalry? If so what was it, and were you at the battle of Sand
creek fought November 29, 1864?
Answer. I was first assistant surgeon, and I was at the battle of Sand creek.
Question. Did you see any captured or pressed property for any purpose? If yes, please state all the particulars concerning its final
disposition, &c.
Answer. On the afternoon of the 29th (after the battle) I went to Colonel Chivington and Colonel Shoup; told them that I was going to
take some buffalo
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robes for the wounded from John Smith's (Indian interpreter and trader) wagon; that I had no blankets to cover the wounded. I
detailed three or four men to go with me, and when I arrived there the larger amount of soldiers there (there were a great number of
soldiers there) pitched in and got a large number of robes at the same time. I suppose that they thought every man was helping
himself. I can't tell the number I got, as I never counted them, but I should think in the neighborhood of forty. That same evening
Colonel Shoup requested me to return John Smith some of the robes to sleep on. I returned five or six, I think. Of the balance of the
robes, a portion was stolen from the sick out of the lodges, some were claimed by others on the grounds that they had left them for
the use of the wounded, the balance were given to the wounded soldiers.
Question. Did you have any conversation with any parties at Fort Lyon in relation to captured property? If yes, please state who the
parties were and what the conversation was.
Answer. I think I had a conversation once with Major Anthony, first cavalry of Colorado, and Dr. Leas, assistant surgeon on the staff.
The major asked me what had become of those robes I took from John Smith; that John Smith had lost one hundred and fifteen
robes, and the government would have to pay twenty dollars apiece for them. Dr. Leas asked me the same question, and wanted to
know what had become of two hundred robes I took, and that government would have to pay twenty dollars apiece for them if they
were not returned. I remarked wherever they could find any of John Smith's robes to go and take them, as I had other business to
attend to.
Question. Did you see any white scalps at Sand creek? If yes, please state the particulars in regard to them.
Answer. I think it was about three or four o'clock p. m., November 29, the day of the battle, I was in the lodge dressing the wounded;
some man came to the opening of the lodge and hallooed to me to look at five or six scalps he had in his hand. I should judge, from
a casual look, that they were the scalps of white persons.
Question. Did you see all the wounded of Colonel Chivington's command? If yes, please state whether, in your professional
opinion, any of them were wounded by their own comrades.
Answer. Yes, I saw all the wounded; my impression is two or three were wounded by their own comrades; I judge from the size and
cavity of the bullet wounds.
Question. Do you know what arms the Indians had, and whether they had not arms in their possession, and used on the field
November 29, 1864, capable of inflicting wounds whose cavities would be as large and deep as any in possession of the troops?
Answer. I am not capable of answering that, as I did not examine particularly their guns; I was busy, and was not away from the
lodge over ten steps.
Direct examination of Dr. Caleb S. Burdsal by J. M. Chivington closed
Cross-examination of Dr. Caleb S. Burdsal by the commission:
Question. Have you any other reasons than those you have stated for believing some of the wounded were shot by their comrades
instead of by the Indians? if so, what those reasons were.
Answer. The large majority of those that were wounded with balls were wounded in the upper part of the body; two were wounded in
the calf of the leg, and one in the knee; the cavities were much larger than those shot in the upper part of the body. These are the
grounds of my opinion. My impression is that two of the men were under that impression themselves.
Question. Did any of the command exhibit any other scalps than those you have mentioned at the time or afterwards?
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(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That it is examining in relation to new matter,
which is illegal and improper; that if the court will confine its questions to the inquiry in regard to white scalps we have no objection,
but the question in its general form is too hard.
Objection overruled by the commission.)
Answer. I saw scalps in the hands of several after returning from the battle.
Question. Did you ever see an Indian scalp. If so, state what is the difference between it and a white scalp?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: That no inquiry has been made in relation to
the difference between white and Indian scalps; that it is new matter; therefore illegal and improper; that the professional opinion of
Dr. Burdsal, as an expert has been asked in regard to wounds, not in regard to scalps.
Objection sustained by the commission.}
Question. What reason have you for saying the scalps you saw in the lodge were those of white persons?
Answer. I judge by the color of the hair.
Question. What was the color of those you saw in the lodge?
Answer. I think there were some white, some sandy brown. I don't think there were any that were very black.
Question. Did not these scalps present the appearance of having faded and changed from their original color by age?
Answer. I think not. My impression is that one or two of them were not more than ten days off of the head.
Question. From what indications do you determine the time not to have been over ten days?
Answer. The skin and flesh attached to the hair appeared to be yet quite moist.
Question. Did you examine these scalps closely?
Answer. Yes; my attention was called to that by others, to decide whether they were fresh or not.
Question. How many wounded were under your charge at Sand creek?
Answer. Thirty-eight. Three of the wounded, after their wounds were dressed, continued with the command down the Arkansas.
Cross-examination of Dr. Caleb Burdsal by the commission closed.
Re-examination: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. tomorrow, May 10, 1865.
SIXTIETH DAY.
MAY 10, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved. Commission adjourned until two o'clock p. m. this day.
Two o'clock, p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission. Adjourned until nine o'clock
a. m to-morrow, May 11, 1865.
SIXTY-FIRST DAY.
MAY 11, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder. Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
B. N. FORBES introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Forbes) testified
as follows:
PAGE 205
Question. What is your name, and have you been a soldier? If yes, state what regiment and company you served in.
Answer. B. N. Forbes; served in company D, first cavalry of Colorado.
Question. Were you with Major Wynkoop, commanding Fort Lyon, when he made an expedition to the Smoky Hill, about September,
1864, and recovered some white prisoners? If yes, state all that occurred, of your own knowledge, on that expedition.
Answer. Yes, I was with that expedition. I think it was about the middle of September, 1864. When we came in sight of the Indians
Major Wynkoop halted our command, and sent the chief we had with us, (One-Eye, I think,) as messenger to the Indians. After he
(the Indian) returned, the major turned off to the left about a mile and encamped for the night; next morning resumed the march. After
travelling four miles, I should judge, we came in sight of the Indians drawn up in line of battle. The major halted the command; there
was a short consultation held between the chief and the major, (it was with Black Kettle I believe,) after which the command went on
and the Indians fell in rear; travelled that way nearly eight miles and camped. Then there was a consultation held between Major
Wynkoop and the Indian chiefs. I do not know what was done in that consultation, I not understanding the Indian language.
Question. How long did you remain in the camp where the consultation was held, and did the Indians come into your camp? State
particularly all that occurred in this camp.
Answer. We remained there, I should judge, about six hours. The Indians came into camp, quite a number of them--probably five
Indians to one white man. They (the Indians) were armed and equipped. They took some of our provisions out of the wagons,
forcibly.
Question. How did the Indians behave toward the troops, as regards peace or war? State particularly.
Answer. They were pretty saucy for friendly Indians. A few that could talk English used pretty hard words. Looking at us, (the troops,)
they would say, "Damn you." They kept the troops guarded. If a man would get up to leave his place, two or three Indians would
follow him. Whether this was done by the Indians so as to have the best of the men, I don't know. They had their bows strung and
their arrows in their hands. They also surrounded the cannon, quite a number of them. Lieutenant Hardin went to Black Kettle and
got him to talk to them, (the Indians;) they dispersed. They then commenced saddling up their ponies and striking off, after setting
fire to the grass to the windward of the camp. We then broke camp and went back about ten or fifteen miles, and camped for the
night.
Question. How was your camp in which these things occurred arranged for defence? Describe it particularly.
Answer. We were camped in an elbow or bend of the creek. The creek encircled us on three sides, about two hundred yards from
the centre of our camp. The camp was arranged very poorly for defence, I think, on account of the creek furnishing a very good
ambuscade for the Indians.
Question. How was the ground on the other side of the creek that encircled your camp? Was it clear, or covered with brush; and how
was it situated to conceal an enemy? Describe it particularly.
Answer. It was covered with a thick undergrowth, the banks being pretty high on both sides, sloping off gradually to the creek. It
would be very favorable for concealment of an enemy.
Question. Were any orders given by Major Wynkoop to keep the Indians out of camp? If yes, were the troops able to enforce these
orders in the position they occupied? State only what you know of your own knowledge.
Answer. I was sergeant of the guard that day, and did not receive any orders
PAGE 206
from any one--Major Wynkoop or the officer of the day--in relation to keeping the Indians out of camp.
Question. What occurred in the camp to which you moved after the consultation, and which you state was ten or fifteen miles distant,
as regards the troops and Major Wynkoop in relation to the orders?
Answer. We remained there for two nights and one day. Some of the Indians that were with us left us in the afternoon of the first day.
It aroused some excitement in the minds of the troops. There was strong talk among the troops of breaking camp, and returning to
Fort Lyon without orders from the officers. They, (the men) sent for Major Wynkoop; they told him that they did not have the
confidence in the Indians that he had. He talked to the men and explained to them what the Indians had promised, and the
excitement died away, and they (the troops) concluded to wait for orders.
Question. Were there any other motives that prompted the men in telling Major Wynkoop that they would go back to Fort Lyon? If yes,
state them particularly.
Answer. There was some talk that there was more whiskey aboard than was really necessary. Some said that they had full
confidence in Major Wynkoop when sober, but that they did not like to trust themselves with him among the Indians when he had
been drinking.
Question. When the Indians fell in rear of you, as you have stated, after Wynkoop's consultation with Black Kettle, how near did the
Indians keep to Major Wynkoop's command, and did the Indians threaten the command? State particularly.
Answer. They kept within one hundred and fifty to two hundred yards of us; they kept up their war song continually. I do not know
whether the Indians threatened the command or not.
Direct examination of B. N. Forbes by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of B. N. Forbes by the commission:
Question. Are you still in the service? If not, when were you discharged, and what is your residence?
Answer. I was discharged the 30th of November, 1864; my residence has been in Denver most of the time since I have been
discharged.
Question. Were any of Major Wynkoop's command killed, fired upon, or assaulted in any manner by the Indians?
Answer. There were none of the command fired upon, none killed, only assaulted by words.
Question. You say you do not understand the Indian language; then how do you know they assaulted with words?
Answer. Some of them spoke a little English, as I told you at the time; some of them used pretty hard words.
Question. Where were the chiefs of the Indians at the time the cannon was surrounded, and where were the officers of Major
Wynkoop's command at that time?
Answer. The chiefs were in their council-lodge, and the officers were mostly there, all but Lieutenant Hardin and Lieutenant Phillips;
I believe Lieutenant Hardin was officer of the day.
Question. How deep was the creek upon which the command camped?
Answer. About belly deep to our horses, where we watered opposite to the camp.
Question. Did any of the Indians conceal themselves in the brush on the creek to attack Major Wynkoop's command?
(J. M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question for the following reasons: The cross-examination of the witness in regard
to the new matter is improper, no question being put on the examination in chief of the conceal-
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ment of Indians anywhere; if the court wants such evidence, they can obtain it legally only by making the witness their own.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. You say the troops while in camp manifested a spirit of mutiny in declaring they would disobey their officers, and return to
Fort Lyon; was it anything more than idle talk? Did any leave the camp? If so, how many and who were they?
Answer. There were none left the camp.
Question. You say the excitement died away after Major Wynkoop left the command; after that, was there any more talk of leaving
camp, and did any one leave?
Answer. There was none left, and there was no talk that amounted to anything after that--only idle talk.
Question. How do you know that it was a war song the Indians kept up as they followed in rear of Major Wynkoop's command?
Answer. It was a song that I heard once before when engaged with the Indians.
Question. Were you present at the council between Major Wynkoop and the Indians?
Answer. No.
Cross-examination of B. N. Forbes, by the commission closed.
Re-examination of B. N. Forbes. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
PRESLEY TALBOT introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Talbot)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your name? Were you in the third regiment Colorado cavalry? If yes, what position did you hold? And were you at
the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state what occurred there. State particularly what you know of your own knowledge.
Answer. My name is Presley Talbot. I was in the third regiment Colorado cavalry, and held the position as captain of company M. I
was at the battle of Sand creek; I was ordered to go into the fight by Colonel Chivington; ordered to cross Sand creek to the right side
of the bank. There I received so very galling a fire from the Indians under the bank and from ditches dug out just above the bank that
I ordered my company to advance, to prepare to dismount and fight on foot. At the command to fight on foot I was shot, with a ball
about fifty to the pound, from the rifle of a chief known by the name of One-Eye. When shot--was shot in right side--dragged my right
leg from horse, eased myself as well as I could, and fell; laid on right side; had a soldier to place blankets under right leg so as to
ease pain from wound. Indians, twenty-five or thirty in number, (bucks) made charge, were repulsed, some of my men clubbing their
guns on account of guns refusing to discharge, and forced Indians to seek shelter under the banks, and in holes dug out for
concealment. Firing ceased for not more than five minutes; one Indian, which proved to be Big Head, who as a signal showed
buffalo robe to the height of a person, as the means of drawing the fire from the soldiers, so that they would empty their guns, and
then would give a whoop and rise en masse and fire arrows, shot muskets, and squirrel rifles. I commanded my troops to be
guarded, hold their fire, and be very particular what they fired at, and to be sure it was an Indian. There was a lull in hostilities for a
few minutes. The Indians en masse, at least thirty in number, made a charge, which was repulsed by eight of company M; being
wounded I was then taken from the field to the hospital lodge designated by the commander. I furthermore state that the Indians
were hostile, and
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acted with desperation and bravery; that Colonel John M. Chivington, commanding, acted with discretion and bravery. Furthermore,
that there were at least thirty Indians killed by company M, assisted by two men of the first regiment Colorado cavalry, within
seventy-five feet of where the company fought.
Question. Did you, before or after the battle of Sand creek, have any conversation with Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, Major
Colley, Indian agent, or John Smith, Indian interpreter, in relation to the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state particularly what that
conversation was.
Answer. I had a conversation before the battle of Sand creek, with Major Anthony, in company with Captain Soule, deceased,
Lieutenant Richmond, of the third regiment. He (Anthony) expressed himself gratified that we had come to make an attack on the
Indians; said that he would have attacked them before this time if he had had force enough at his command: Had several
consultations with Major Colley, Indian agent, and John Smith, Indian interpreter; stated that they had considerable sympathy for me,
being wounded; would give me all the attention and assistance in their power, but they would do anything to damn Colonel John M.
Chivington, or Major Downing; that they had lost at least six thousand dollars each by the Sand creek fight; that they had one
hundred and five robes and two white ponies bought at the time of attack, independent of the goods which they had on the
battle-ground, which they never had recovered, but would make the general government pay for the same, and damn old Chivington
eventually. Furthermore, John Smith had a bill made out against the government--showed me the same--for government
indebtedness to him, sworn and subscribed to, by one David Louderback, stating that he would go to Washington city and would
present the same, and that he had friends who would help him get it. Smith and Colley both told me that they were equally
interested in the trade with the Indians.
Question. Did you hear Major Colley, Indian agent, and John Smith, Indian interpreter, say that they would swear to anything to ruin
Colonel Chivington? If so, state particularly what that conversation was.
I object to the question being asked the witness, for the reason that it is leading; has no reference to the matter of this investigation,
and after the witness has given the conversation he had with these parties in reference to Sand creek and the Indians.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado cavalry,
President of Commission.
Objection sustained by the commission.
Question. In the conversation you stated you had with Major Colley and John Smith, in which they stated they would do anything to
damn Colonel Chivington, did they say they would do anything else?
I object to the question, for the reason that it has no reference to the subject-matter of this investigation, and after the witness has
given the conversation of Major Colley and John Smith in reference to Sand creek and the Indians, and whatever threats (if any were
made) these parties may have made against Colonel Chivington or any other person is not a proper subject of this investigation.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
President of Commission.
John M. Chivington would most respectfully explain that Major Colley and John Smith having testified before the "Committee on the
Conduct of the War," and as we are informed the evidence taken by this commission is to be considered by that committee, we
consider it our right by this witness to show what these men, Colley and Smith, have threatened to do, that we may defend our-
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selves against the testimony of these men, and therefore we consider the testimony relevant and proper, and most respectfully
insist that this commission allow the question to be put, and receive the evidence.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
I have no information that the evidence taken by this commission is to go before the "Committee on the Conduct of the War," but, on
the contrary I understand that a committee of the two houses of Congress are now on their way to this Territory to investigate this
affair of Sand creek, to present to the "Committee on the Conduct of the War."
This commission was ordered to investigate all matters relating to the Indians and Sand creek. Private threats and quarrels
growing out of that or any other affair is not, in my opinion, a legitimate and proper matter of record by this commission.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
(Objection sustained by commission.)
Question. State any other conversation that you had with Major Colley and John Smith, if you remember any, pertaining to matters
connected with Sand creek.
Answer. I heard a portion of a letter read in the adjoining room, in which I lay wounded, in which I recognized the voices of Smith,
Colley, and Olmsted, the purport of which was denouncing Colonel Chivington and the Sand creek fight, addressed to the
superintendent of Indian affairs, Washington city. I also heard Smith boastingly in my presence state that the eastern papers would
be filled with letters from that post, (Fort Lyon,) denouncing the same, and that Colonel Chivington had murdered his boy, and that
he would be avenged by using every effort with the department possible. Furthermore he said with tears in his eyes, that he was a
bad boy and deserved punishment, but it was hard for a father to endure it. He furthermore stated that he had tried to influence his
boy to quit committing depredations. I asked him why he could not prevail on him to do so. He said that it was inherited, not from
him, but from the Indian blood. I furthermore asked him why he did not deserve death. He stated that he did deserve death, and
burst into a flood of fears. Colley and Smith stated to me in person that they would go to Washington and represent the Sand creek
battle as nothing more than a massacre; and Smith said that he would realize twenty-five thousand dollars from his losses.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 12, 1865.
SIXTY-SECOND DAY.
MAY 12, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
Question. Have you stated all the conversation you had between Smith and Colley, pertaining to the Sand creek affair?
Answer. I think I have.
John M. Chivington then, after the witness had in answer to the above question stated that he had related all the conversation which
he heard between Colley and Smith in reference to Sand creek, and after he had given the conversation between himself and these
men upon that subject, repeated by asking the question if the witness "had stated all the conversation he had with Colley and Smith
pertaining to Colonel Chivington, as regards the Sand creek affair."
Ex. Doc. 26-----14
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Question ruled out by a majority of commission on the grounds that it was improper, the commission having decided that private
threats and quarrels growing out of that (Sand creek) or any other matter, was not a legitimate and proper matter of record by this
commission, and that it was not proper to cumber the record with improper and irrelevant questions.
Question. You stated near the close of your examination that you wished to make some amendment or explanation. What was that
amendment?
I object to the question, for the reason that the evidence given by the witness has been read to the witness, and he has stated that it
was all correct.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
Commission rooms were cleared for discussion. Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
The objection to the last question of J. M. Chivington sustained by the commission.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
Question. Are you acquainted with David H. Louderback, private first cavalry of Colorado?
I object to the question because it is irrelevant to the subject-matter of this investigation, is leading, can be answered by a yes or no,
and to ascertain the acquaintance of the witness is not the business of this commission.
SAM. F. TAPPAN
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of Commission.
J. M. Chivington would most respectfully state, in explanation to the question proposed, that our object in asking it is to lay the
foundation for impeaching Louderback, which we assert we can do; and if the court will grant us what interpretation of the law tells
us is our right, we will do it.
Room cleared for deliberation.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 13, 1865.
SIXTY-THIRD DAY.
MAY 13, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
The room was cleared for discussion. The question under discussion at adjournment yesterday resumed.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The question of John M. Chivington, late colonel, first cavalry of Colorado, was objected to on account of its irrelevancy to the
subject-matter of this investigation, and to prevent the evidence from branching off into a variety of collateral issues perfectly
immaterial to the matter this commission has been ordered to investigate.
After the question was objected to, J. M. Chivington stated the object of the question was, to lay the foundation for impeaching
Louderback. The only way to impeach the credit of a witness by the testimony of others is--
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First. By disproving the facts stated by him, by other testimony.
Second. By general evidence of reputation.
Third. By proof of self-contradiction.
If J. M. Chivington intends to impeach the credit of the said Louderback, by disproving his testimony by other evidence, showing a
different state of facts than those given by Louderback, this can be done, if done at all, without reference to witness's personal
acquaintance with Louderback, or to make any reference to him (Louderback) whatever, which makes the question asked by J. M.
Chivington irrelevant and consequently improper.
If by general evidence of reputation, the examination in chief must be confined to the general reputation of Louderback; to adduce
evidence as to that, not to particular facts, and not the witness's personal acquaintance with the said Louderback, but to his
knowledge of the reputation only of the said Louderback: for these reasons the question as to the witness's personal acquaintance
is immaterial, and for that reason improper.
If by proving self-contradiction--that the witness had made verbal statements outside differing from what he has testified to before
this commission, J. M. Chivington having failed to prepare the way for its admission by cross-examining the witness (Louderback)
as to the supposed contradictory statements, and giving him an opportunity of denying or explaining such statements, &c., it is now
too late, and inadmissible as evidence. For these reasons the objection is sustained by the commission.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m., Monday, May 15, 1865.
SIXTY-FOURTH DAY.
MAY 15, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to absence of witness the commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Owing to absence of witness the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 16, 1865.
SIXTY-FIFTH DAY.
MAY 16, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to the illness of Presley Talbot, a witness introduced by J. M. Chivington, his further examination is postponed.
HARRY RICHMOND introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Richmond)
testified as follows:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your name? Have you been in the army? If so, state in what corps, and what position you occupied.
Answer. Name, Harry Richmond; position, second lieutenant company B, third Colorado cavalry.
Question. Were you on the expedition: against the Indians, under command of Colonel John M. Chivington, which resulted in the
battle of Sand creek near Fort Lyon?
Answer. I was.
Question. Did you at any time before or after the battle of Sand creek have any conversation with Major Anthony, first cavalry of
Colorado, commanding
PAGE 212
Fort Lyon, in relation to the battle of Sand creek and the Indians? If yes, state the conversation particularly.
Answer. I met Major Anthony as the command was between Fort Lyon and the commissary building. On shaking hands with me,
and in reply to "Where are the Indians?" asked by me he said, "I am damned glad you have come; I have got them over here about
twenty-five miles until I could send to Denver for assistance." This was before the battle of Sand creek. At another time he asserted
that he should have attacked them himself if he had had sufficient force. That is about all the remarks I heard him make concerning
the battle or the Indians that I remember of. I never heard Anthony express himself except exulting over the battle of Sand creek or
the arrival of troops to give battle.
Direct examination of Harry Richmond by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Harry Richmond by the commission:
Question. Did Major Anthony, in his conversation with you, refer to the Indians on the Smoky Hill, or on Sand creek?
Answer. Without specially referring to either, I thought he meant both. The indication of his finger was the same direction as that we
marched to go for the Sand creek Indians.
Question. In what direction did you march, to reach the Indians on Sand creek, from Fort Lyon?
Answer. I could not answer that question as regards the points of the compass. I should judge we marched in a line directly from
the Arkansas river, our road forming a right angle with the river. It was dark when we left Fort Lyon.
Question. Where is your present residence?
Answer. Denver, Colorado Territory. Post office address box 93.
Cross examination of Harry Richmond by the commission closed.
Re-examination: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
SIMEON WHITELEY introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Whiteley)
testified as follows:
By J. M. CHIVINGTON:
Question. What is your name, residence, and do you hold any official position under the government of the United States? If yes,
state what that official position is.
Answer. Simeon Whiteley; residence in this city. I at present hold the office of United States Indian agent of the Grand River and
Uintah band of Utah Indians.
Question. Were you at a council held at Camp Weld, near Denver, Colorado Territory, in September, 1864, between Governor Evans
and chiefs of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe nations, and can you state what occurred there? If yes, please state it particularly, and
who was present.
Answer. I was present at the council and acted as clerk at the time. I made a verbatim report of the proceedings there had, which I
can give to this commission if desired. In this report referred to, I have the names of the prominent individuals present.
Question. Please state the report verbatim, and under what circumstances, and in what manner you took that report?
Answer. Governor Evans has been in the habit of having me make copies of
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the proceedings of all councils, when my other duties would permit. I made this report of the proceedings of the council at Camp
Weld at his request. He (the governor) warned me before I commenced that upon the result of this council very likely depended a
continuance of the Indian war on the plains, and it was important that the minutes should be full and complete. I frequently, while
taking these notes, had to stop the interpreter as well as the governor, so that I could get every word down. I think I was successful
in doing it.
The following is the report:
CAMP WELD, DENVER,
Wednesday, September 28, 1864.
Present--Governor John Evans; Colonel Chivington, commanding district of Colorado; Colonel George L. Shoup, third Colorado
volunteer cavalry; Major E. Wynkoop, Colorado first; S. Whiteley, United States Indian agent; Black Kettle, leading Cheyenne chief;
White Antelope, chief central Cheyenne band; Bull Bear, leader of Dog-soldiers (Cheyenne;) Neva, sub Arapahoe chief, who was in
Washington; Bosse, sub Arapahoe chief; Heaps-of-Buffalo, Arapahoe chief; No-ta-nee, Arapahoe chief; the Arapahoes are all
relatives of Left Hand, chief of the Arapahoes, and are sent by him in his stead; John Smith, interpreter to Upper Arkansas agency;
and many other citizens and officers.
His excellency Governor Evans asked the Indians what they had to say.
BLACK KETTLE then said: On sight of your circular of June 27, 1864, I took hold of the matter, and have now come to talk to you
about it. I told Mr. Bent, who brought it, that I accepted it, but that it would take some time to get all my people together, many of my
young men being absent; and I have done everything in my power since then to keep peace with the whites. As soon as I could get
my people all together we held a council and got a half-breed who was with us to write a letter to inform Major Wynkoop, or other
military officer nearest us, of our intention to comply with the terms of the circular. Major Wynkoop was kind enough to receive the
letter, and visited us in camp, to whom we delivered four white prisoners--one other, Mrs. Snyder, having killed herself. There are
two women and one child yet in our camp, whom we will deliver up as soon as we can get them in. These are their names: Laura
Roper, aged sixteen or seventeen years; Ambrose Asher, aged seven or eight years; Daniel Marble, aged seven or eight years;
Isabel Ubanks, aged four or five years. The prisoners still with us, are Mrs. Ubanks and babe; and a Mrs. Morton, who was taken on
the Platte. Mrs. Snyder is the name of the woman who hung herself. The boys were taken between Fort Kearney and the Blue. I
followed Major Wynkoop to Fort Lyon, and Major Wynkoop proposed that we come up to see you. We have come with our eyes shut,
following his handful of men, like coming through the fire. All we ask is that we may have peace with the whites; we want to hold you
by the hand. You are our father; we have been travelling through a cloud; the sky has been dark ever since the war began. These
braves who are with me are all willing to do what I say. We want to take good tidings home to our people, that they may sleep in
peace. I want you to give all the chiefs of the soldiers here to understand that we are for peace, and that we have made peace, that
we may not be mistaken by them for enemies. I have not come here with a little wolf's bark, but have come to talk plain with you. We
must live near the buffalo or starve. When we came here we came free, without any apprehension, to see you, and when I go home
and tell my people that I have taken your hand and the hands of all the chiefs here in Denver, they will feel well, and so will all the
different tribes of Indians on the plains, after we have eaten and drunk with them.
Governor EVANS replied: I am sorry you did not respond to my appeal at once; you have gone into an alliance with the Sioux, who
were at war with
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us; you have done a great deal of damage, have stolen stock, and now have possession of it. However much a few individuals may
have tried to keep the peace, as a nation you have gone to war; while we have been spending thousands of dollars in opening
farms for you, and making preparations to feed, protect and make you comfortable, you have joined our enemies and gone to war.
Hearing last fall that you were dissatisfied, the Great Father at Washington sent me out on the plains to talk with you and make it all
right. I sent messengers out to tell you that I had presents and would make you a feast; but you sent word to me that you did not
want anything to do with me, and to the Great Father at Washington that you could get along without him. Bull Bear wanted to come
in to see me at the head of the Republican, but his people held a council and would not let him come.
BLACK KETTLE. That is true.
Governor EVANS. (resuming.) I was under the necessity, after all the trouble and expense I was at, of returning home without seeing
them. Instead of this, your people went away and smoked the "war pipe" with our enemies.
BLACK KETTLE. I don't know who could have told you this.
Governor EVANS. No matter who said this, but your conduct has proved to my satisfaction that such was the case.
SEVERAL INDIANS. This is a mistake; we have made no alliance with the Sioux or any one else.
Governor EVANS explained that smoking the "war pipe" was a figurative term, but their conduct had been such as to show they had
an understanding with other tribes.
SEVERAL INDIANS. We acknowledge that our actions have given you reason to believe this.
Governor EVANS. So far as making a treaty now is concerned, we are in no condition to do it; your young men are on the war path,
my soldiers are preparing for the fight. You so far have had the advantage, but the time is near at hand when the plains will swarm
with United States soldiers. I understand that these men who have come to see me now have been opposed to the war all the time,
but that their people have controlled them, and they could not help themselves. Is this so?
ALL THE INDIANS. It has been so.
Governor EVANS. The fact that they have not been able to prevent their people from going to war in the past spring, when there was
plenty of grass and game, makes me believe that they will not be able to make a peace which will last longer than until winter is
past.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I will answer that, after a time.
Governor EVANS. The time when you can make war best is in the summer time; the time when I can make war best is in the winter.
You so far have had the advantage; my time is fast coming. I have learned that you understand that as the whites are at war among
themselves, you think you can now drive the whites from this country, but this reliance is false. The Great Father at Washington has
men enough to drive all the Indians off the plains, and whip the rebels at the same time. Now, the war with the whites is nearly
through, and the Great Father will not know what to do with all his soldiers, except to send them after the Indians on the plains. My
proposition to the friendly Indians has gone out. I shall be glad to have them all come in under it. I have no new proposition to make.
Another reason that I am not in condition to make a treaty is, that war is begun, and the power to make a treaty of peace has passed
from me to the great war chief. My advice to you is to turn on the side of the government, and show by your acts that friendly
disposition you profess to me. It is utterly out of the question for you to be at peace with us while living with our enemies and being
on friendly terms with them.
PAGE 215
Inquiry was made by one Indian, what was meant by being on the side of the government. Explanation being made, all gave assent,
saying, "All right."
Governor EVANS. The only way you can show this friendship is by making some arrangement with the soldiers to help them.
BLACK KETTLE. We will return with Major Wynkoop to Fort Lyon; we will then proceed to our village and take back to my young men
every word you say. I cannot answer for all of them, but think there will be but little difficulty in getting them to assent to help the
soldiers.
Major WYNKOOP to Black Kettle. Did not the Dog soldiers agree, when I had my council with you, to do whatever you said, after you
had been here?
BLACK KETTLE. Yes.
Governor EVANS explained that if the Indians did not keep with the United States soldiers, or have an arrangement with them, they
would be all treated as enemies. You understand, if you are at peace with us, it is necessary to keep away from our enemies; but I
hand you over to the military, one of the chief of whom is here to-day, and can speak for himself if he chooses.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I understand every word you have said, and will hold on to it. I will give you an answer directly. The Cheyennes,
all of them, have their ears open this way, and they will hear what you say. I am proud to have seen the chief of all the whites in this
country. I will tell my people. Ever since I went to Washington and received this medal, I have called all white men as my brothers,
but other Indians have since been to Washington and got medals, and now the soldiers do not shake hands, but seek to kill me.
What do you mean by us fighting your enemies? Who are they?
Governor EVANS. All Indians who are fighting us.
WHITE ANTELOPE. How can we be protected from the soldiers on the plains?
Governor EVANS. You must make that arrangement, with the military chief.
WHITE ANTELOPE. I fear these new soldiers who have gone out may kill some of my people while I am here.
Governor EVANS. There is great danger of it.
WHITE ANTELOPE. When we sent our letter to Major Wynkoop, it was like going through a strong fire, or blast, for Major Wynkoop's
men to come to our camp; it was the same for us to come to see you. We have our doubts whether the Indians south of the
Arkansas, or those north of the Platte, will do as you say. A large number of Sioux have crossed the Platte in the vicinity of the
Junction, into our country. When Major Wynkoop came, we proposed to make peace. He said he had no power to make peace,
except to bring us here and return us safe.
Governor EVANS, again. Whatever peace you make must be with the soldiers, and not with me. Are the Apaches at war with the
whites?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Yes; and the Comanches and Kiowas, as well; also a tribe of Indians from Texas whose name we do not know.
There are thirteen different bands of Sioux who have crossed the Platte, and are in alliance with the others named.
Governor EVANS. How many warriors with the Apaches, Kiowas, and Comanches?
WHITE ANTELOPE. A good many; don't know.
Governor EVANS: How many of the Sioux?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Don't know, but many more than the southern tribes.
Governor EVANS. Who committed the depredations on the trains near the Junction, about the first of August?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Do not know; did not know any was committed; have taken you by the hand, and will tell the truth, keeping back
nothing.
Governor EVANS. Who committed the murder of the Hungate family, on Burning creek?
PAGE 216
NEVA. The Arapahoes, a party of the northern band who were passing north; it was Medicine Man, or Roman Nose, and three others.
Agent WHITELEY. That cannot be true; I am satisfied, from the time he left a certain camp for the north, that it was not this party of
four persons.
Governor EVANS. Where is Roman Nose now?
NEVA. You ought to know better than me; you have been nearer to him;.
Governor EVANS. Who killed a man and boy at the head of Cherry creek, four weeks ago?
NEVA. (after-consultation,) Kiowas and Comanches.
Governor EVANS. Who stole soldiers' horses and mules from Jimmie's camp, twenty-seven days ago?
NEVA. Fourteen Cheyennes and Arapahoes together.
Governor EVANS. What were their names?
NEVA. Powder-face and Whirlwind, who are now in our camp, were the leaders.
Colonel SHOUP. I counted twenty Indians on that occasion.
Governor EVANS. Who stole Charley Antobe's horses?
NEVA. Raven's son.
Governor EVANS. Who took the stock from Frémont's Orchard, and had the first battle with the soldiers this spring, north of there?
WHITE ANTELOPE. Before answering this question, I would like for you to know that this was the beginning of the war, and I should
like to know what it was for--a soldier fired first.
Governor EVANS. The Indians had stolen about forty horses; the soldiers went to recover them, and the Indians fired a volley into
their ranks.
WHITE ANTELOPE. This is all a mistake; they were coming down the Bijou, and found one horse and one mule. They returned one
horse, before they got to Geary's, to a man; then went to Geary's, expecting to turn the other one over to some one. They then heard
that the soldiers and the Indians were fighting somewhere down the Platte; they then took a fright, and all fled.
Governor EVANS. Who were the Indians who had the fight?
WHITE ANTELOPE. They were headed by Fool Badger's son; a young man, one of the greatest of the Cheyenne warriors, who was
wounded, and, though still alive, he will never recover.
NEVA. I want to say something. It makes me feed bad to be talking about these things, and opening old sores.
Governor EVANS. Let him speak.
NEVA. Mr. Smith has known me ever since I was a child; has he ever known me commit depredations on the whites? I went to
Washington last year, receiving good counsel; I hold on to it. I am determined always to keep peace with the whites. Now, when I
shake hands with them they seem to pull away. I came here to seek peace, and nothing else.
Governor EVANS. We feel that you have, by your stealing and murdering, done us great damage. You come here and say you will tell
us all, and that is what I am trying to get.
NEVA. The Comanches, Kiowas, and Sioux have done much more injury than we have. We will tell you what we know, but cannot
answer for others.
Governor EVANS. I suppose you acknowledge the depredations on the Little Blue, as you have the prisoners there taken in your
possession?
WHITE ANTELOPE. We (the Cheyennes) took two prisoners west of Fort Kearney, and destroyed the trains.
Governor EVANS. Who committed depredations at Cottonwood?
WHITE ANTELOPE. The Sioux; what band I do not know.
Governor EVANS. What are the Sioux going to do next?
BULL BEAR. Their intention is to clear out all this country. They are angry, and will do all the damage to the whites they can. I am
with you and the
PAGE 217
troops to fight all those who have no ears to listen to what you say. Who are they? Show them to me--I am young. I have never
harmed a white man. I am pushing for something good. I am always going to be friendly with the whites; they can do me good.
Governor EVANS. Where are those Sioux?
BULL BEAR. Down on the Republican, where it opens out.
Governor EVANS. Do you know that they intend to attack the trains this week?
BULL BEAR. Yes; about one-half of all the Missouri river Sioux and Yanktons who were driven from Minnesota are those who have
crossed the Platte. I am young, and can fight. I have given my word to fight with the whites. My brother, Lean Bear, died in trying to
keep peace with the whites. I am willing to die in the same way, and expect to do so.
NEVA. I know the value of the presents which we receive from Washington; we cannot live without them. That is why I try so hard to
keep peace with the whites.
Governor EVANS. I cannot say anything about these things now.
NEVA. I can speak for all the Arapahoes under Left Hand. Raven has sent no one here to speak for him. Raven has fought whites.
Governor EVANS. Are there any whites among your people?
NEVA. There are none except Keith, who is now in the store at Fort Larned.
Colonel CHIVINGTON. I am not a big war chief, but all the soldiers in this country are at my command. My rule of fighting white men
or Indians is, to fight them until they lay down their arms and submit to military authority. You are nearer Major Wynkoop than any one
else, and you can go to him when you get ready to do that.
The council then adjourned.
Direct examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by J. M. Chivington, closed.
Cross-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by the commission:
Question. You say that explanations were made as to what it was to be, on the side of the government, to which the Indians gave
assent; state particularly what that explanation was.
Answer. I don't recollect the exact language that was used. If I should attempt to give the explanation, it would, probably, be mostly
according to my own ideas, and not what was really said, or the words used. It is my recollection of what was said, that they must
obey the requirements of the military officers, to render them such assistance as they could, by giving information, acting as scouts,
&c. I don't know that any of those particular terms were used, but this is the general idea of the explanation.
Question. Was the assent of the Indians an expression of their willingness to comply with the terms proposed?
Answer. Yes.
Question. What reply did the Indians make to the remark of Colonel Shoup, that he counted twenty Indians in the attack on Jimmie's
camp?
Answer. None.
Question. What reply did the Indians make to your remark in council, that they were mistaken as to who killed the Hunsgate family?
Answer. None whatever. I don't know whether they heard my remark. I do not recollect whether it was interpreted to them. I
addressed it more particularly to Governor Evans. I knew it was a lie.
Question. State how you know it was a lie.
Answer. From my knowledge of the time when Medicine Man was in this
PAGE 218
part of the country, I know that he had not been in this section of the country since the preceding September.
Question. State particularly your knowledge of Medicine Man and Roman Nose, where they were at the time the Hunsgate family
were killed.
Answer. About that time I received word from the camp of the northern band of Arapahoes that Roman Nose was dead.
Subsequently I received word that Medicine Man was fighting the Snakes in Montana Territory, and was off on the war path, beyond
Powder river, about the time of the murder of the Hunsgate family. After the council adjourned I told what I knew of Medicine Man's
locality to Governor Evans and Colonel Chivington.
Question. Have you stated your only means of knowing that Medicine Man was absent and Roman Nose dead?
Answer. I can explain that in saying that I have, in addition to other duties, had charge of a portion of this northern band of
Arapahoes; that I have sent and received messages from Medicine Man at various times since the 1st of July last. He is now
reported to me as being near the Medicine Bow mountains. I have talked with a good many Indians of his band. Two weeks ago
yesterday I had a council with Black Bear, one of his leading chiefs, who has just come in from the northern country, and I have not a
shadow of doubt of the falsity of Neva's statement.
Cross-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by the commission, closed.
Re-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, by J. M. Chivington:
Question. Who gave the Indians the explanations you have stated were given in regard to their being on the side of the government?
Answer. Governor Evans.
Re-examination of Simeon Whiteley, United States Indian agent, closed.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 17, 1865.
SIXTY-SIXTH DAY.
MAY 17, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
On account of the non-appearance of the witnesses, the commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Owing to the non-appearance of witnesses, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 18, 1865.
SIXTY-SEVENTH DAY.
MAY 18, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Direct examination of Presley Talbot by J. M. Chivington continued:
No question asked.
Cross-examination of Presley Talbot by the commission:
Question. Where is your residence?
Answer. Denver City, Colorado Territory.
Cross examination of Presley Talbot by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Presley Talbot:
No questions asked.
PAGE 219
To the president and members of the military commission convened at Denver, Colorado Territory, in pursuance of Special Orders
No. 23, headquarters district of Colorado, &c.:
We would most respectfully request your honorable court to allow us to introduce Major Simeon Whiteley on new matter, to wit, to
prove a conversation that he (Whiteley) had with Major Anthony, formerly first cavalry of Colorado, and commanding Fort Lyon,
Colorado Territory, November 28, 1864, in relation to the hostility of the Indians killed at Sand creek. We wish to prove by Major
Whiteley that Anthony stated to Whiteley that the Indians at Sand creek killed by Chivington were hostile; that he had fired on them
repeatedly before the "battle of Sand creek;" that he entertained serious apprehensions for the safety of Fort Lyon on account of
these Indians; and that he represented these facts to Colonel Chivington and urged him to attack and kill the Indians.
J. M. CHIVINGTON.
MAY 18, 1865.
This commission, in its investigation of the affairs of Sand creek, in order to ascertain all the facts and the exact relations existing
between the Indians and the military authorities, have allowed evidence to be introduced as to statements made by Major Anthony
while in command at Fort Lyon and in the public service as an officer. Therefore, in the opinion of this commission, evidence as to
what Major Anthony may have said since leaving the public service and the country, in reference to the Indians and Sand creek, (and
since this commission and a committee of Congress have been ordered to investigate the affair of Sand creek,) is merely
accumulative, irrelevant, and improper; and for these reasons the request of J. M. Chivington cannot be complied with.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
On account of the non-appearance of witnesses, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 19, 1865.
SIXTY-EIGHTH DAY.
MAY 19, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
ALEXANDER F. SAFELY introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Safely)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your name, and have you been a soldier? If yes, state how long, to what corps did you belong, and what position
did you occupy in the army.
Answer. Alexander F. Safely; I have been a soldier three years and a half; belonged to first cavalry of Colorado; I was a private.
Question. Were you on the expedition made by Colonel Chivington and command, which resulted in the battle of Sand creek last
November? If yes, what duty were you on during that expedition?
Answer. I was on the expedition with Colonel Chivington and command, which resulted in the battle of Sand creek, and acted as a
scout during that campaign.
Question. Were you with Colonel Chivington on the 28th of November last, when he entered Fort Lyon? If yes, please state
particularly who Colonel Chivington spoke with on the road into Fort Lyon from your camp, and how long Colonel Chivington halted
at any time before he reached Fort Lyon.
PAGE 220
Answer. I was with Colonel Chivington on the 28th of November last, and rode into Fort Lyon with him; he did not stop to talk with
anyone on the road, that I saw. He met Captain Soule's command about eight miles from Fort Lyon, and he spoke to the boys as he
was riding by, saying, "How are you boys?" That is the only time I heard him speak to anybody, unless those that were riding along
with him.
Question. Did you see Captain Soule when he spoke to the boys; and did Colonel Chivington halt when he spoke to the boys?
Answer. Colonel Chivington did not halt; Captain Soule's command were watering their horses at the time Colonel Chivington rode
by; he (Chivington) merely said "How are you, boys?"
Question. Did you hear any conversation between Colonel Chivington and Major Anthony, commanding Fort Lyon, in regard to
Indians, either before or after the battle of Sand creek? If yes, state what that conversation was particularly.
Answer. I did hear a conversation between Colonel Chivington and Major Anthony, both before and after the battle of Sand creek;
and it was in regard to Indians. Major Anthony stated to Colonel Chivington, in my presence, that when he took command of Fort
Lyon, or shortly after that, he made a demand on the Indians to give up all their arms; he (Anthony) said that the Indians agreed to do
so, and that instead of turning in arms that were of any use to the Indians, they turned in some boys' bows, and some
double-barrelled shot-guns, and one Hawkins's rifle, which had no lock on it. He said that he considered that they were sincere [sic]
about it, and gave them back their arms, and ordered them out of the post; that if they came back again he would open his artillery
upon them. He said that they removed from there, and were then somewhere on Sand creek. He said that he was glad that we had
come down there, as the Indians had sent him word that if he wanted to fight he could get as big a one as he wanted by coming out
there to Sand creek. Indeed (he said) he was becoming alarmed that they would come in to the post and give him a fight. He said
that he and every man he commanded would go with Colonel Chivington's command. That is about all I can think of that he said
before the battle. The day after the battle I heard Major Anthony say that this would put a stop to the Indian war; that he considered
that it was the biggest Indian fight that ever was recorded. I heard him ask Colonel Chivington's permission to proceed to Fort Lyon
with the dead and wounded, and that he would overtake the command with the balance of the troops that had arrived there since we
left. That is about all.
Question. Did you witness the commencement of the battle of Sand creek? If yes, please describe it particularly; who fired the first
shot and how it commenced.
Answer. I witnessed the commencement of the battle of Sand creek, being the first man on the ground. Lieutenant Wilson brought
his battalion on the left of the village, while company H, of the first cavalry of Colorado, came up in line directly in front on the right of
the village, where I then was. While Lieutenant Wilson was coming up, I saw a man's horse running away with him, which I
afterwards learned was George Pierce, of F company. (His horse carried him through the lower end of the village, and suddenly I
saw him and his horse fall together. Shortly afterwards I saw him (Pierce) get up on his feet and run a short distance, stopped and
turned around, when I saw the smoke rise from an Indian gun, and also saw George Pierce drop. At that time Wilson's battalion
commenced firing, and at the same time company H, of the first, commenced firing. Before company H had taken their position,
there were three Indians who had left the village and advanced to meet us. There was a company of the third regiment directly
behind company H, and these three Indians, who were firing bows and arrows, shot over company H and
PAGE 221
took effect in the company of the third, directly behind company H. One of the Indians was killed right there. The next Indian that
came out off the village from the side we were on was White Antelope. He came running directly towards company H; he had a
pistol in his left hand, and a bow with some arrows in his right. He got within about fifty yards of the company; he commenced
shooting his pistol, still in his left hand. There were a good many shots fired at him from off the horses, but the horses were
jumping around so, that the men could hardly manage them, there being a company in rear firing. One of the men, who was
considerably excited, asked "if no one could hit that Indian?" I told him if he would hold my horse, I would try and see if I could not get
him. He did so; I got off and fired at the Indian, the ball taking effect in the groin. He turned then and ran back towards the village, and
Billy Henderson, of H company, shot the Indian through the head when he was about the middle of the creek. That was the
commencement of the fight, as near as I can recollect.
Question. Did you at any time see any white flag in the village of the Indians, or held by any of the Indians near the village?
Answer. I did not.
Question. Was your position such that you would have seen a white flag, if any had been exhibited by the Indians?--you have stated
that you was the first man on the ground.
Answer. It was.
Question. Did you hear, at any time, a conversation between Major Colley, Indian agent, and Colonel Chivington in regard to the
Indians?
Answer. Before the battle I did not know Major Colley by sight, and cannot think of anything he said and be positive about it.
Direct examination of Alexander F. Safely by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Alexander F. Safely by the commission:
Question. When Major Anthony referred to certain Indians as sending him word "to come out and fight, or they would attack him in
the post," did he refer to the Sioux on the Smoky Hill, or the Cheyennes on Sand creek?
Answer. He referred to the Cheyennes and Arapahoes on Sand creek.
Question. Did you hear Colonel Chivington tell Major Anthony that the hostile Indians had moved south from the Platte and were to
attack Fort Lyon?
Answer. No.
Question. What are your means of knowledge that Major Anthony referred to the Cheyennes and Arapahoes instead of the Sioux?
Answer. Because I heard him say, in the course of the conversation, they were Cheyennes and Arapahoes.
Question. In the conversation between Major Anthony and Colonel Chivington, what did Colonel Chivington say in reference to the
Indians?
Answer. He did not have much to say about it. He said that he would start for them that night and march all night. Major Anthony did
pretty much all the talking.
Question. What portion of Colonel Chivington's command was the first to reach the Indian camp on Sand creek?
Answer. Lieutenant Wilson's battalion on the left, and company H of the first regiment came up on the right of the village. About the
same time a company of the third regiment came up in rear of company H--immediately afterwards.
Question. How long after you saw the horse running toward the Indian village did Lieutenant Wilson's command reach his position
to the right of the village?
Answer. He reached his position at the end of the village about the time
PAGE 222
Pierce was shot. It was about a moment difference of time from the time Pierce was shot to the time Lieutenant Wilson opened fire.
Question. From what portion of the column did this horse start?
Answer. I could not say; when I saw him he was at full speed and ahead of the column.
Question. You say that White Antelope came out of the Indian village and attacked company H. How do you know it was White
Antelope?
Answer. Because I have seen him before. I know him by sight.
Question. How far from the Indian village was company H when you fired at White Antelope?
Answer. About one hundred yards.
Question. Was White Antelope between company H and the village, and was he alone?
Answer. He was between company H and the village, and he was alone.
Question. You say your position was such as to enable you to see all that transpired in the Indian village. How large a tract of ground
did the village cover?
Answer. I do not know exactly. It was about a quarter of a mile long, I should judge.
Cross-examination of Alexander F. Safely by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Alexander F. Safely. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
The witnesses summoned not having arrived, the commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 20, 1865.
SIXTY-NINTH DAY.
MAY 20, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read, amended as follows, and approved:
On page 816, answer to first question, insert "I saw Captain Soule at the time."
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 9 a. m. Monday, May 22, 1865.
SEVENTIETH DAY.
MAY 22, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
The witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 23, 1865.
SEVENTY-FIRST DAY.
MAY 23, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
Witnesses not having reported, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
PAGE 223
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
T. P. BELL introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence.
The oath being administered according to law, he (Bell) testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name, where do you reside, and were you at the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864.
Answer. Thaddeus P. Bell; reside in Lake Gulch, Gilpin county, Colorado Territory; post office address, Central City, Colorado
Territory. I was at the battle of Sand creek, fought November 29, 1864.
Question. Did you see any white scalps in the Indian village at Sand creek? If yes, please describe them particularly.
Answer. I saw a good many white scalps there. The number, I have not any idea how many. There were some that looked old, as if
they might have been taken a considerable time; others not so long, and one that was quite fresh, not over from five to eight days old
at furthest. I did not notice them particularly enough at the time to give a more minute description. The fresh scalp was from a red
haired man.
Direct examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by commission:
Question. Was there a soldier of Colonel Chivington's command killed and scalped by the Indians at the commencement of the
fight at Sand creek?
Answer. I cannot say whether he was scalped or not, but there was one killed. The first man I saw killed was one of Colonel
Chivington's command. There was one man scalped, but that was later in the day.
Question. Was not the fresh scalp you saw taken on the day of the fight by the Indians?
Answer. It was not.
Question. State how you know it was not.
Answer. I saw the scalp before the fight had been going on any length of time; before there had been any wounded or dead brought
in off the field, and at a place where there had been none either wounded or killed on either side; and further, by the appearance of
the scalp itself. It was lying in or near the door of one of the Indian lodges; it looked like it might have been recently dropped there.
Question. What was done with this scalp?
Answer. I do not know what was done with it.
Question. Have you seen any of the scalps you saw at Sand creek since?
Answer. I have not seen any of the white scalps except one; I saw one since.
Question. Where did you see it, and in whose possession was it?
Answer. I saw it between where we leave the Arkansas river and cross to the Fountain-qui-bouit. It was in possession of a man
whose name I believe is Rhoades, one of the third regiment.
Question. How long after the fight commenced did you see these scalps you speak of?
Answer. I suppose the fight had been going on probably an hour; it might have been more or it might have been less.
Question. State particularly from what you determine the age of a scalp.
Answer. If the scalp had been taken that day the capillary vessels would have yet been bleeding, which they were not, but the scalp
was yet soft and green.
Cross-examination of Thaddeus P. Bell by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Dr. Thaddeus P. Bell. No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 24, 1865.
PAGE 224
SEVENTY-SECOND DAY.
MAY 24, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
JAY J. JOHNSON introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Johnson)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name; have you been in the United States military service? If yes, state how long, and what position you
occupied. Where do you now reside?
Answer. Jay J. Johnson; I have been in the United States military service from the 10th of September, 1861, to the 28th day of
December, 1864; I was an enlisted man up to the 16th of August, 1864; I acted as adjutant third Colorado cavalry from that time to
the 28th of September, 1864, I think, when I was mustered in as captain of company E of same regiment, and served as captain
until mustered out.
Question. Was you with Colonel Chivington's command when he (Chivington) made an expedition against the Indians, which
resulted in the battle of Sand creek November 29, 1864? If yes, what position did you occupy, and what duty was assigned for your
performance before and after the battle?
Answer. I was with the command from the time that Colonel Chivington came up to Boonville until it returned to Denver, and acted
as provost marshal of the expedition during that time. I reside in Central City, Gilpin county, Colorado Territory.
Question. What orders did you receive as provost marshal, in relation to captured property, from Colonel Chivington, commanding?
Please state particularly.
Answer. My orders from Colonel Chivington, at the time I received the appointment, were to take charge of all captured property, and
see that it was turned over to the quartermaster.
Question. Did you receive any other orders from Colonel Chivington in regard to captured property, at any other time? State
particularly the orders, times, and places.
Answer. I did receive other orders the night before Colonel Chivington left the command on the Arkansas. He then ordered me,
"when I got to Fort Lyon, to take my company and take charge of the stock captured from Indians there, and drive it to Denver and
turn it in to the assistant quartermaster."
Direct examination of Jay J. Johnson, late captain third Colorado cavalry, by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of Jay J. Johnson late captain, &c., by the commission:
Question. Did you obey the order of Colonel Chivington by turning over the captured property to the quartermaster?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question relates to new matter, and
that it is therefore irregular and improper. We have examined the witness only in relation to what orders Colonel Chivington gave
him--not what he did in the performance of his duty as provost marshal. We simply have asked what he was told to do by Colonel
Chivington when acting officially. That it is not competent for the court to ask the witness questions which will criminate him if
answered in the affirmative, and if answered in the negative will relate to new matter not called out by the defendant, Chivington, in
the examination in chief of the witness.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you ever report to Colonel Chivington how you had executed his order in reference to the captured stock?
PAGE 225
(J. M. Chivington objects to the question, for the same reasons expressed in the last objection filed by him.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Question. Did you receive a verbal or written order from Colonel Chivington in reference to the captured stock?
Answer. The first order I refer to was a verbal order. I was regularly detailed as provost marshal from district headquarters, in the
field; but my instructions at that time were verbal. My instructions from Colonel Chivington the night before he left the command on
the Arkansas were verbal; but just before I got into the post of Fort Lyon I received the same instructions, written, from the Adjutant
General.
Question. Were those instructions in writing, in reference to the taking and disposition you should make of the captured stock?
Answer. The instructions in writing were the same as the verbal instructions from Colonel Chivington.
Cross-examination of Jay J. Johnson by the commission closed.
Re-examination of Jay J. Johnson, late captain, &c.:
No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
W. H. VALENTINE introduced by J. M. Chivington to give evidence. The oath being administered according to law, he (Valentine)
testified as follows:
Question. What is your full name? Where do you reside? Have you been a soldier? If yes, how long; in what corps did you serve;
what position did you occupy in the military service of the United States, and where have you been stationed?
Answer. William H. Valentine; reside in Denver at present. I have been a soldier two years and six months; served in the first cavalry
of Colorado; position, veterinary surgeon; have been stationed at Fort Lyon, on the Arkansas.
Question. Were you at Fort Lyon on or about October last, when Major Wynkoop returned from Denver with the Indians Black Kettle,
&c.? If yes, did you have any conversation with any of them or hear any of them talk after Major Wynkoop returned from Denver?
Please state such conversation, if you had any.
Answer. I was at Fort Lyon when Major Wynkoop returned from Denver with Black Kettle and other Indians. All the conversation I had
at that time was with Left Hand. He was the only one I could talk with. I pointed out two or three Indians that stood on the
parade-ground, and asked him if those were the ones that killed the soldier and blacksmith beyond Spring Bottom. He said, "they
are the Indians."
Question. Did you ever hear the Indians that you pointed out to Left Hand say anything about the killing of the blacksmith and
soldiers? State particularly.
Answer. I never heard those Indians say anything about it in language that I could understand. They told me in signs and motions. I
made a motion to them if they were the Indians that killed the soldiers and the blacksmith; they gave me to understand, by motions,
that they were.
Question. Did the Indians have government stock in their possession at this time? State particularly.
Answer. They had eight head of mules; the soldiers that were killed had them formerly--four in a wagon and four in an ambulance.
Question. How did you know that they belonged to the government; who
Ex. Doc. 26-----15
PAGE 226
was in command of the post at this time, and did the commanding officer of the post at this time attempt to take, or did he at any
time take these mules from the Indians?
Answer. I know four of the mules were sent from the quartermaster's corral to Denver with an officer; I forget who it was. Major
Wynkoop was in command of the post at this time. I don't think he did take or attempt to take these mules himself from the Indians.
Question. Who succeeded Major Wynkoop in command of Fort Lyon, and how did the guard, while he was in command of Fort Lyon,
treat the Indians? State what you saw.
Answer. Major Anthony succeeded Major Wynkoop in command of Fort Lyon. While Major Anthony was in command I saw one of the
guard fire on the Indians.
Question. What were the Indians trying to do when the guard fired on them; and what reason did the guard give for firing on them?
Answer. They were trying to come into the post. The guard gave as their reason for firing on them that they were ordered to do so by
Major Anthony.
Question. Where was Major Anthony when the guard fired upon the Indians, as you have stated?
Answer. I think that he was in front of his own office, or near there.
Question. What remark did he, Major Anthony, make in regard to the guard firing upon the Indians?
Answer. I don't know as he made any just at that time. Some few hours afterwards he was laughing at the idea of seeing the Indians
run. He said that they had annoyed him enough, and that was the only way to get rid of them, or words to that effect.
Direct examination of W. H. Valentine by J. M. Chivington closed.
Cross-examination of W. H. Valentine by the commission:
Question. Are you familiar with the signs and motions used by Indians in conversation?
Answer. I understand some of it.
Question. Are you sure the Indians you accused of killing the soldiers understood your signs and motions?
Answer. I was pretty sure they did. That was what brought the conversation and motions about. They were in my office at the time,
and I drove them out.
Question. Of what tribe were these Indians you speak of?
Answer. John Smith, Indian interpreter, said that they were Arapahoes and Cheyennes.
Question. Were the mules you speak of brought into the post by the Indians?
Answer. Yes, they were. They were on the opposite side of the river from the post--eight head of them--and were annoying us all the
time. It was an impossible thing to keep them out of the quartermaster's herd. There was an order issued by Wynkoop not to
meddle with those mules until after the difficulty with the Indians was settled.
Question. Did the Indians take the mules away from the post when they left?
Answer. No; five of them were turned over to Major Anthony, by the Indians.
Question. Were not the guard instructed to discharge their pieces, and give the alarm of Indians, when seen to approach the post?
Answer. Their orders were to fire either over or at them, or close to them, to frighten them. They were to shoot in the direction of the
Indians, to drive them out of the post.
PAGE 227
Question. Did the guard fire upon all Indians who approached the post after Major Anthony took command?
Answer. Only this one time that I ever saw the guard fired on the Indians.
Question. Did the guard kill or wound any of the Indians they fired upon?
Answer. Not any.
Question. Did you see any Indians in the post after you saw the guard fire upon them?
Answer. I saw Left Hand afterwards. He was the only one I saw for about ten days, I think.
Question. Could Left Hand talk to you in English?
Answer. Yes.
Question. Did Major Anthony, after the Indians had left the post, meet them in council, or have any talk with them, outside the post?
(John M. Chivington most respectfully objects to the question, for the following reasons: That the question is calling out new matter,
which cannot be done in a cross-examination. We have not inquired in regard to any council that Major Anthony might have had with
them--only what the guard did when Major Anthony was in command of the post.
Objection sustained by the commission.)
Cross-examination of W. H. Valentine by the commission closed.
Re-examination of W. H. Valentine: No questions asked.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 25, 1865.
SEVENTY-THIRD DAY.
MAY 25, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
J. M. Chivington gave notice that he did not wish to introduce any more witnesses on the defence.
Therefore the defence is hereby closed.
Captain E. A. Jacobs, acting as president of the commission, announced that the commission stood adjourned until 9 a. m.
Saturday, May, 27, 1865. No vote taken. Which action I respectfully protest against.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain Company F, Veteran Battalion,
First Colorado Cavalry, Recorder.
DENVER, May 25, 1865.
I was absent this morning on the reading of the journal, and find that a majority of the commission having assembled, read and
approved of the journal of yesterday, and adjourned until Saturday, 9 o'clock. I have caused the journal to be read to me by the clerk,
find it correct, and therefore add my approval to the same, and also to the adjournment until Saturday morning, 9 o'clock.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of the Commission.
SEVENTY-FOURTH DAY.
MAY 27, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Recorder being absent, commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, a majority of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 9 a. m. Monday, May 29, 1865.
PAGE 228
SEVENTY-FIFTH DAY.
MAY 29, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of Saturday, May 27, 1865, read and approved.
I move that a careful synopsis of the evidence, as taken by the commission, be made in an index form, or what may more properly
be called an index, giving all the facts as testified to by the witnesses, the pages upon which they can be found, and appended to
these proceedings.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry.
The motion was not sustained by a majority of the commission.
Commission adjourned until 2 p. m. this day.
Two p. m.--Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
To enable the recorder to complete certain papers the commission adjourn until 9 a. m. to-morrow, May 30, 1865; J. M. Chivington
having been notified that no more evidence would be received or introduced by this commission.
SEVENTY-SIXTH DAY.
MAY 30, 1865.
Commission met pursuant to adjournment. Present, all members and recorder.
Proceedings of yesterday read and approved.
The journal of Saturday, May 27th, instant, amended so as to read "that the journal of the 25th instant was read and approved."
The recorder was instructed by the commission to examine the record, to carefully unite it by a tape, and seal it in such a manner as
to keep it together, and certify to its being properly arranged, previous to its being signed by the commission.
I certify that I have, in compliance with the foregoing order, carefully examined the record, and to the best of my knowledge it is
properly arranged.
"GEORGE H. STILWELL,
"Captain Veteran Battalion, First Colorado Cavalry, Recorder."
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Colonel Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President Military Commission.
E. A. JACOBS,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry.
Member Military Commission.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
Recorder Military Commission.
The commission, having no further business before it, adjourned sine die.
SAMUEL F. TAPPAN,
Lieut. Col. Veteran Battalion First Colorado Cavalry,
President of the Commission.
GEORGE H. STILWELL,
Captain, Veteran Battalion, First Colorado Cavalry,
Recorder of the Commission.
ADJUTANT GENERAL'S OFFICE,
Washington, February 12, 1867.
Official copy:
E. D. TOWNSEND,
Assistant Adjutant General.
Military Investigation of the Sand Creek Massacre
“Sand Creek Massacre” – United States Congress,
Senate. Report of the Secretary of War, Sand Creek
Massacre, Sen. Exec. Doc. No. 26, 39 Cong., 2 sess.
Washington, Government Printing Office, 1867
Senate. Report of the Secretary of War, Sand Creek
Massacre, Sen. Exec. Doc. No. 26, 39 Cong., 2 sess.
Washington, Government Printing Office, 1867
Silas Soule 8 – 29
Joseph Cramer part 1 29 – 33
Charles C. Hawley 33 – 39
Amos Steck 39 – 44
Joseph Cramer part 1 29 – 33
Charles C. Hawley 33 – 39
Amos Steck 39 – 44
Index of Testimony
Joseph Cramer part 2 44 – 68
James P. Beckwith 68 – 76
Naman D. Snyder 76 – 81
Linden Mullin 81 – 83
James P. Beckwith 68 – 76
Naman D. Snyder 76 – 81
Linden Mullin 81 – 83
Edward W. Wynkoop 83 – 103
John W. Prowers 103 – 109
James D. Cannon 109 – 115
James M. Combs 115 – 134
David H. Louderback 134 – 141
John W. Prowers 103 – 109
James D. Cannon 109 – 115
James M. Combs 115 – 134
David H. Louderback 134 – 141
George M. Roan 141 – 142
Lucian Palmer 142 – 145
Amos D. James 145 – 146
William P. Minton 146 – 149
James J. Adams 149 – 152
Chauncy M. Cossitt 152 – 158
Soule murdered 158
Cyrus L. Gorton 160 – 163
Reports 165 – 174
George L. Shoup 175 – 179
Andrew J. Gill 179 – 180
Clark Dunn 180 – 183
Lucian Palmer 142 – 145
Amos D. James 145 – 146
William P. Minton 146 – 149
James J. Adams 149 – 152
Chauncy M. Cossitt 152 – 158
Soule murdered 158
Cyrus L. Gorton 160 – 163
Reports 165 – 174
George L. Shoup 175 – 179
Andrew J. Gill 179 – 180
Clark Dunn 180 – 183
Lipman Meyer 184 – 190
Theodore G. Cree 190 – 192
Samuel P. Ashcroft 192 – 194
Stephen Decatur 194 – 200
Henry H. Hewitt 200 – 202
Dr. Caleb Birdsal 202 – 204
B. N. Forbes 204 – 207
Presley Talbot 207 – 211
218 – 219
Harry Richmond 211 – 212
Simeon Whiteley 212 – 218
Alexander F. Safely 219 – 222
Thaddeus P. Bell 223
Jay J. Johnson 224 – 225
William H. Valentine 225 - 227
Theodore G. Cree 190 – 192
Samuel P. Ashcroft 192 – 194
Stephen Decatur 194 – 200
Henry H. Hewitt 200 – 202
Dr. Caleb Birdsal 202 – 204
B. N. Forbes 204 – 207
Presley Talbot 207 – 211
218 – 219
Harry Richmond 211 – 212
Simeon Whiteley 212 – 218
Alexander F. Safely 219 – 222
Thaddeus P. Bell 223
Jay J. Johnson 224 – 225
William H. Valentine 225 - 227
This
Section 5 Page
Section 5 Page
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| The Sand Creek Massacre |
| Catlin’s Letters and Notes on the North American Indians |
| Dog Soldier Ledgerbook |
| The Fighting Cheyennes |
| Black Kettle |
| Life of George Bent |
| Chief Left Hand |
| Peace Chiefs of the Cheyennes |
| Colorado, A History of the Centennial State |
| Fighting Men of the Indian Wars |
| Cheyennes at Dark Water Creek |
| Plains Indians Raiders |
| Indian Massacre in Minnesota |
| Son of the Morning Star: Custer and The Little Bighorn |
| Battle At Sand Creek: The Military Perspective |
| Forty Miles a Day on Beans and Hay |
| Battles and Skirmishes of the Great Sioux War |
| The Fighting Parson, The Biography of Colonel John M. Chivington |
| Frontier Regulars, The United States Army and the Indian, 1866-1891 |
| Warpath and Council Fire: The Plains Indians’ Struggle for Survival in War and Diplomacy 1851-1891 |
| The Contested Plains: Indians, Goldseekers, & the Rush to Colorado |
| Bent’s Fort |
| The Great Sioux Uprising |
| Hardtack and Coffee, or the Unwritten Story of Army Life |
| Custer, Black Kettle, and the Fight on the Washita |
| Washita |
| Relations With the Indians of the Plains |
| A Fate Worse Than Death: Indian Captivities in the West 1830-1885 |
| The Ghost Dance |
| The Cheyenne in Plains Indian Trade Relations, 1795-1840 |
| Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee |
| The Civil War a Narrative |
| Custer: My Life on the Plains |
| Ken Burns The Civil War DVD |
| Cheyennes and Horse Soldiers |
| Battles and Leaders of the Civil War |
| Centennial |
| Custer and the Cheyenne |
| The Battle of Glorieta Pass: A Gettysburg in the West |
| Wah-to-yah and the Taos Trail |
| Cheyenne Memories of the Custer Fight |
| Children of the West: Family Life on the Frontier |
| Mollie: The Journal of Mollie Dorsey Sanford in Nebraska and Colorado Territories |
| Cheyenne Autumn |
| The Recollections & Letters of Robert E. Lee |
| The Nebraska Indian Wars Reader |
| The Battle of Glorieta: Union Victory in the West |
| Crazy Horse and Custer |
| William Tecumseh Sherman and the Settlement of the West |
| The Life and Adventures of James P. Beckwourth |
| I Stand by Sand Creek: a Defense of Colonel John M. Chivington and the Third Colorado Calvary |
| By Cheyenne Campfires |
| The Custer Companion |
| Tribal Wars of the Southern Plains |
| The Life and Death of Crazy Horse |
| The Old Santa Fe Trail |
| Lakota Noon: The Indian Narrative of Custer's Defeat |
| Encyclopedia of American Indian Wars, 1492-1890 |
| The Arapaho |
| Dog Soldier Societies of the Plains |
| Girl Captives of the Cheyennes |
| Black Elk Speaks |
| Trails of the Smoky Hill: From Coronado to the Cow Towns |
| The Last Days of the Sioux Nation |
| Cheyenne Dog Soldiers: A Courageous Warrior History |
| Morning Star Dawn |
| In Dull Knife's Wake |
| The Great Sioux Uprising |
| Warpath and Cattle Trail |
| The Civil War in the Western Territories |
| The Cheyenne Indians, Their History and Ways of Life |
| Black Sun: The Battle of Summit Springs |
| Pike’s Peak Gold Rush Guidebooks of 1859 |
| The Second William Penn. Treating with the Indians on the Santa Fe Trail, 1860-66 |
| The Blue, the Gray & the Red, Indian Campaigns of the Civil War |
| Kit Carson Days |
| Wooden Leg, A Warrior Who Fought Custer |
| The Battle of Beecher Island and the Indian War of 1868-1869 |